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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

If sex and gender are different why do we use the same words for them?

66 replies

testing987654321 · 16/11/2019 08:54

This came out of a conversation at work.

"She's a girl"

"Why can't you respect that she identifies as a boy?"

"Because she's not a boy, she doesn't have a penis"

"you're talking about sex not gender"

"So what is gender? Why use the same words as sex?"

It's the heart of the problem. We're using words in such a way that allows nonsense to appear meaningful.

The guardian recently had an article about dick pics. A woman started researching and received lots more diverse images "women with penises". That phrase only works if you use "women" to mean gender identity whilst referring to the actual sex parts of a man.

OP posts:
TheShoesa · 16/11/2019 14:50

I like the Hardware/Software analogy BovaryX I might use that in future (although I have no idea who Douglas Murray is)

For the Gender/Sex thing I use WHO definitions from this glossary as it makes sense to me and the WHO are a recognised body.

www.who.int/gender-equity-rights/knowledge/glossary/en/

70sWitch · 16/11/2019 14:04

Maybe we should take a leaf out of Sheldon's book and revive the word "coitus".

So -
GENDER - Masculine/Feminine

SEX - Male/Female

COITUS - that thing you do when you smush your naughty parts together Grin

Ereshkigal · 16/11/2019 11:06

Yes exactly. "I'm campaigning for better gender equality policies in the workplace" and "I'm campaigning for trans rights in the workplace" could be exactly the same statement.

EmpressLesbianInChair · 16/11/2019 11:04

I don't think gender and gender stereotypes are the same thing. How err outdated of me

The problem is that the word has so many meanings now that it’s practically useless. Two people could be discussing gender & mean the opposite from each other.

Ereshkigal · 16/11/2019 10:47

Linguistic sleight of hand.

Ereshkigal · 16/11/2019 10:46

What Genderists have done in the last 5 years is used the confusion around the two meanings to create a third meaning, and pretend that things have always been this way.

Exactly this.

donquixotedelamancha · 16/11/2019 10:45

"Why can't you respect that she identifies as a boy?"
"Because she's not a boy, she doesn't have a penis"
"you're talking about sex not gender"

Thing is, this makes no sense whichever definition you use. Gender is either a synonym for sex or a term for the societal stereotypes which surround sex.

You can't have a gender distinct from your sex.

What Genderists have done in the last 5 years is used the confusion around the two meanings to create a third meaning, and pretend that things have always been this way.

XXCoffeeHoneyBread · 16/11/2019 10:33

I support homesexuals' rights not to be homogenderal Grin

MamaToTheBabyBears · 16/11/2019 10:29

I don't think gender and gender stereotypes are the same thing. How err outdated of me Hmm

XXCoffeeHoneyBread · 16/11/2019 10:23

It has appeared because "inclusive" and so as not to offend.

Harmless enough thinks form maker.

It's appearance has excluded me and offended me.

Form maker needs to know that is the harm.

endofthelinefinally · 16/11/2019 10:21

The substitution of the word gender for sex has been insidious and deliberate over the last few years. It is appearing in official paperwork and online forms, including medical records, employment applications and so on.

Ereshkigal · 16/11/2019 10:11

If you can't fill in the age box with "yoof", "silver fox", "30ish", "millenial", "gen x" or "boomer" why would it be acceptable to complete a gender box in place of sex?

Good point!

XXCoffeeHoneyBread · 16/11/2019 10:10

Oh another form filling argument is the question of age - a scientific fact not to be flim flammed.

If you can't fill in the age box with "yoof", "silver fox", "30ish", "millenial", "gen x" or "boomer" why would it be acceptable to complete a gender box in place of sex?

We already know that feedback works to change these systems, that is how sex became erroneously replaced with gender, so we need to feedback as often and as annoyingly as possible to get reality back in charge.

Ereshkigal · 16/11/2019 10:02

Absolutely this - they know when they are losing

Very few TRAs I've come across appear to like arguing with gender critical feminists. I suspect because they can't, and it's all too invalidating for them. They tend to block you. it's mainly the allies and of them mostly the men, that I argue with.

XXCoffeeHoneyBread · 16/11/2019 10:01

What do you do on online forms that don’t let you proceed any further if you don’t answer the “gender” question? Some of them are things I really need to apply for/fill in so can’t just not send them.

In my case these are usually companies/government forms wanting information from me and so often come attached to an email.

If there is no option to leave gender question blank then I respond to the email stating that I will not complete it because it asks about gender not sex and I find that offensive since my religious beliefs are not relevant/private or, as is often the case now, not asked about properly (more frequently finding forms ask gender but no tick box for jew/muslim/sikh etc).

As far as I can see genderism is a belief system therefore should be treated like any other religion and not used in place of a question of sex.

I appreciate there are forms that must be completed regardless, these sometimes have a blank box somewhere for "any other comments" where the point can be clearly made. Pick your battles but do battle, you are entitled to an opinion on yourself!

Melroses · 16/11/2019 09:57

They don't want a good faith discussion. They just wanted to shut you down.

Absolutely this - they know when they are losing Wink

Melroses · 16/11/2019 09:54

sex scan makes more sense than gender scan

Or anomaly scan, because that is what it is actually for - finding out the sex is just a part of it.

EL2019 · 16/11/2019 09:53

I think gender came into use because people started being squeamish and faux Victorian about using the word sex.

Yes, and weirdly the Victorians weren’t squeamish about using the word sex to refer to biological sex. That’s all our society because we started using it as an abbreviation of sexual intercourse and now we’ve got all squeamish.

IWorkAtTheCheescakeFactory · 16/11/2019 09:52

I refuse to answer gender questions and will score out and replace with sex if on paper or return incomplete with an explanation if electronic.

What do you do on online forms that don’t let you proceed any further if you don’t answer the “gender” question? Some of them are things I really need to apply for/fill in so can’t just not send them.

Ereshkigal · 16/11/2019 09:51

They don't want a good faith discussion. They just wanted to shut you down. You do have a dog in the fight, and just as much of a right to speak about women's rights as they do about trans issues.

Melroses · 16/11/2019 09:51

I definitely remember discussing this in biology in the 1970s.

The suffragettes used the word 'sex'

I think there is a problem that there is no suitable word for 'having sex' - sexual intercourse is a euphemism which has been shortened, and copulation is a bit specifically about one bit. 'Marital relations' is long past it.

So sex comes to mean 'the act of sexual union' or whatever in general terms (where it was only alluded to before) which means 'sex' does not sound genteel enough and people move on to 'gender'.

But 'gender' is useless if you are speaking outside of general terms because it does not actually mean 'sex' in the same way.

Ereshkigal · 16/11/2019 09:49

was so happy to discuss it and be educated on the whole gender/sex thing, right up until I was told my opinion wasn't valid.

Your opinion already wasn't valid, because you are a "transphobe". Don't get hung up on what these idiots say on social media. Just mute them (if on Twitter) or scroll past.

XXCoffeeHoneyBread · 16/11/2019 09:47

Homogenderality doesn't have the same ring to it either. Or the fairer gender etc.

The gender reveal, gender scan type catchphrasing is a very recent american import. I have 15 and 10 yo and the language used in the UK from antenatal staff and from friends and family was always always sex.

What sex is your baby?
Do you want to know the sex of your baby?
Do you know if you are having a boy or a girl?
Different sex or another girl?

etc etc.

Same on all paperwork, baby's sex was referred to clearly. Don't remember any mention of gender anywhere.

When I got a new kitten it was sexed by the vet. When to I sign up with a new vet, I am asked what sex my pet is.

Sex is not a rude word and has only ever been tittered at by schoolchildren previously. The U.S. influence is trying very hard to stop common use of the word sex as scientific fact, ask yourself why?

It is extremely important to be aware of the dumbing down of language and the purposeful attempts to remove valid language as tool for control.

uncommongroundmedia.com/banned-from-medium-pronouns-are-rohypnol/

There are lots of words in the english language whose meaning is dictated by context, trying to remove them all would leave us speechless. Words are power.

I refuse to answer gender questions and will score out and replace with sex if on paper or return incomplete with an explanation if electronic.

We don't have to go along with this.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 16/11/2019 09:46

Yep. "Sex reveal cake" and "sex scan" don't sound quite the same, do they?

sex scan makes more sense than gender scan.

IWorkAtTheCheescakeFactory · 16/11/2019 09:43

I think gender came into use because people started being squeamish and faux Victorian about using the word sex. Sex is a “dirty” word Hmm so they use gender to avoid saying it. Only now it’s causing all these problems you discuss in your OP and people are so deep in the habit of saying gender (every online form I fill in asks for gender instead of sex!) that they think it means sex.

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