If sex and gender are different why do we use the same words for them?

"I am a woman" does not mean the same as "My gender is woman".

It would be much better if we never used that word outside its grammatical use, but it's a bit of a complicated mouthful to say "My behaviour fits the societally-imposed stereotypes associated with women". So much easier to say "My gender is woman".

Or even easier... "I am a woman".

Unless you are a man of course.

Gender is actually the arbitrary assignment of nouns to a grammatical class, which causes the nouns and associated verbs and adjectives to be inflected in specific ways. European languages and Semitic languages are gendered in this way. English is not gendered, and is virtually uninflected, too.

That is the only purpose of 'gender'.

It would be much better if we never used that word outside its grammatical use, but it's a bit of a complicated mouthful to say "My behaviour fits the societally-imposed stereotypes associated with women". So much easier to say "My gender is woman".

I agree Empress, but what else is gender?

The definitions I can think of are polite euphemism for sex, social hierarchy or sex-role stereotypes linked to social constructs. None of which I like much.

and actually when I have a good hard think about all of the women I know and have known throughout my not short life, not a single one is a fit for the female stereotype.

I conclude the stereotype is a unicorn.

I realised that feeling alienated from female gender stereotypes didn't make me male.

This is gold.

Shoesea, Douglas Murray is quite interesting on this issue. He is associate editor of The Spectator and has just written The Madness of Crowds. I haven’t read it yet, but watched a couple of interviews with him and he is very explicit about the way in which trans rights are in direct conflict with women’s rights and gay rights

I think that having the same word, sex, for biological sex and for sexual intercourse is good and useful because is grounds sexuality directly in relation to biological sex... same as the words homosexuality, heterosexuality and bisexuality.

I have been very purposeful recently about using term like sexual inequality, sex based rights, sexual oppression, sexism, sexual politics, because the oppression of woman is sex based. It helps steer my thinking and my conversations more clearly.

I think the danger is definitely the confusion between sex and gender, not a 'confusion' between biological sex and sexual intercourse.

My gender is boy = I feel like a boy, either because I have a penis or because I like boys toys.

The idea of feeling like a boy because you like boy stuff is so ridiculously old-fashioned & stereotypical though.

I am not sure why having a gender helps.

It doesn't.

But people like to feel part of a group, a tribe. Us and them. People always label themselves as something.

The porn mags of the fifties made sex a wink wink nudge nudge dirty word to the point where The Notorious RBG had to argue against discrimination on the basis of sex by using the term gender in her argument so the all male judges and opposing counsel wouldn't snicker and giggle every time a woman spoke the word sex in the Supreme Court of the United States.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DpWCzfRB2U3Q&ved=2ahUKEwjK1vzR9u_lAhWQi1wKHV6SDD8QwqsBMAJ6BAgFEAc&usg=AOvVaw1NHlfVal1XUHoDCDldth_l" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DpWCzfRB2U3Q&ved=2ahUKEwjK1vzR9u_lAhWQi1wKHV6SDD8QwqsBMAJ6BAgFEAc&usg=AOvVaw1NHlfVal1XUHoDCDldth_l

Like this?

I cross out gender where I can.
Actually at work I consistently corrected it on an online form and the next time I looked it said “sex” yay
I love the term weasel words. I have trained myself now to pick up weasel words, stop, think, query it..apply critical thinking. The whole point of queering is to make you doubt reality. I deal in reality only.

Coy-tus, or Co-it-Us?

It's pronounced qwa-tus :-)

I've been told off here before for saying this but this thread feels like supporting evidence

Academics really screwed us over. Not all of them, but a lot of them.

Coy-tus, or Co-it-Us?

I don't recall people being coy about the word sex when I was growing up.

Forms asked your sex, we talked of sexism, sexist stereotypes, sex discrimination.

I only remember gender being used in the context of gendered languages when I was learning French.

I still find use of the word gender when people mean sex weird and it doesn't enter my head to use it myself. Not sure when it crept in but on another thread a poster was surprised that sex was the normal word not long ago as she had grown up with gender being used. She is 25, I'm 45 so something changed in the 90s/noughties.

I like to think of sex = noun - what your are, biologically
Gender= adjective, how you feel.

Let's just keep those things separate.

Intersex (although I prefer using DSD as intersex implies 'between sexes' which is not true and people I've spoken to from older generations confuse it with hermaphrodite and with wolk folk this leads to the inevitable clownfish/seahorse 'science')

I definitely think we should stick to DSD. Most DSDs are not intersex in any meaningful sense, which allows TRAs to completely muddy the stats. Most teens I ask (there is a reason, I'm not doing a survey of random teens) still imagine that intersex means simultaneous hermaphroditism (which doesn't occur in mammals).

I think we've ended up with a situation (in no small part due to deliberate misinformation) in which a lot of people imagine several percent of humans secretly have incredibly rare, or nonexistent, conditions and that this is the basis for the demand for 'trans rights'.

Intersex is not used by the NHS because of the confusion and potential for offence.

My favourite Guardian Women headline ever has to be "Who Needs a Man when you have an Electric Screwdriver"

Down hill since they dropped the page.

So we all need to be vigilant about language

Yes we do

Sex (the having of and biological)
Gender (masculine and feminine words in Latin languages)
Gender identity (no idea what is is really, I don't have one)
Personality
Intersex (although I prefer using DSD as intersex implies 'between sexes' which is not true and people I've spoken to from older generations confuse it with hermaphrodite and with wolk folk this leads to the inevitable clownfish/seahorse 'science')

...I also like the idea of reviving coitus!
Definitions of words are key and that's why I love the simplicity of Standing for Women campaign:Woman=Adult Human Female.

We all get to choose what word we use so I don't use gender, I cross it out on forms and replace it with sex, I ask for clarification when people use it in conversation.

I blame queer theory and the 'queering' of language for a large part of how we got here, even the word queer means something else now and once gay meant joy/joyful (not that I care, just an example of how words change meaning).

The use of the word gender instead of sex was part of the queering of education that led to women's studies becoming gender studies. (*)

They indoctrination via university education then led to those students moving into positions of influence eg media. There was a specific campaign to get NUJ to start using the word gender instead of sex, and also in fact sex work instead of prostituion. I am old enough to remember when it was normal to use the word sex when talking about people. So for instance with have Sex Discrimination Act (not sure how many decades ago that is).

With this campaign to twist words it then became easier to talk about "gender identity" as though it was the same as someone sex. Is it any wonder that school children, the sons and daughters of the brain washed 80s students are now genuine confused. Some of us grew up not being that comfortable with our female bodies but it was never ever thought or suggested should alter your body. Many women suffered because society imposed "gender stereotypes" on them because of their physical reality. But other women rebelled against it. Although 60s fashion can seem pretty silly now (it was then) a lot of it was about liberating women from horrible constricting garments that somehow at the same time said you should be embarrased by your breast but should flaunt them. Getting rid of stockings and girdles and going braless were political!

So we all need to be vigilent about language but also be aware with have nearly 4 decades of a campaign of weasel words to undo.

Selina Todd's speech at the WPUK meeting is well worth a listen to.

As others have said she present as a socialist feminist historians what radical feminists were putting into action at the time! womansplaceuk.org/2019/05/21/feminism-postmodernism-and-womens-oppression/

(*) Worth remembering that long before baby Owen joined the Guardian its editor (a woman) stated that her queer politics informed everything she did.

really recommend reading Douglas Murray on this issue

love the idea of reviving "coitus".

I don't have these conversations with acquaintances or colleagues because no one knows what anyone means.