ROGD Parent Support

We flat out said no to a binder for DD- gave a summary of the physical damage outlined by DuMondeB. Easier said than done, I know and I do have a worry that once hoodies are not allowed in school after Easter (weather- too warm so students can only wear them from Oct-Easter break) that she will get one and sneak it to school. At the moment she doesn’t take off her hoodie at school because it helps hide them. At home she is fine going about in a T-shirt with bra on.

It's hard to find some really effective sports bras though.

I'm not saying this blithely because not everyone can afford this (particularly not when growing) but if possible get Rigby and Peller or similar to make them for your DD.

NB, they'd consent to making a sports bra but I have no idea about whether they've a policy on binders (and yes, those are a medical device that would be unlikely to get approval if submitted for this purpose).

www.rigbyandpeller.com/UK/Made_to_Measure.html

Binders cause all kinds of physical damage and even pro trans sites warn of the problems (from the following link: helloclue.com/articles/cycle-a-z/chest-binding-tips-and-tricks-for-trans-men-nonbinary-and-genderfluid)

76-78% of people in studies reported skin/tissue problems, like tenderness, scarring, swelling, itching, infections
74-75% of people reported pain in chest, shoulders, back or abdomen
51-52% of people reported respiratory problems (like shortness of breath)
47-49% of people reported musculoskeletal symptoms, like postural changes, muscle wasting, or rib fractures (2,3)

If you were struggling with all these issues on a daily basis, then yes, double mastectomy will seem like a preferable option! Just not wearing a binder seems like the easier solution to me, but then, I’m not a teen struggling with gender issues

Thanks for the link to the Lisa Marchiano piece - will read it when I have time to pay it proper attention (she’s a good voice on ROGD issues and has been interviewed by Benjamin Boyce on his YouTube channel).

How do people feel about this link?
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00332925.2017.1350804?src=recsys
I'm battling about binders with DD atm as it seems they contribute to moving on to a double mastectomy :( It's hard to find some really effective sports bras though.

Sending support. I’m pretty certain I would have gone down the trans path as a teen had it been available, and so would my DD. We’ve discussed it. I’m concerned about a GD who is so like me it’s spooky. She’s only 8 so I hope the fad will disappear soon.

None of this has anything to do with me so apologies for butting in, but I think DuMondeB makes a very good point that as parents OUR identities are very much defined in relation to our children. I know the fact I am a mother to a daughter is a massive part of who I am- a daughter not a child- and what happens to our identities when we are told to accept everything about our children’s identities and affirm at all costs?

Oh! Also! Some of the reidentified women had severely disordered eating prior to coming out as trans. This is something I have observed in DSD (it’s not actually effecting her health at this point but she definitely has some weird stuff around food). It’s only with hindsight that the women were able to see both the gender identity issues and the wasting disorders were stemming from the same root.

Something all ROGD parents should probably be aware of.

This is the twitter profile of one of the reidentified women (third from the left on the panel discussion). She’s well worth paying attention to, her story is very moving and she articulates it well:

twitter.com/sathananas

It’s my profound belief that it is the detransitioners who will bring this whole gender identity thing crashing down. Their testimony is incredibly powerful. I am full of the utmost admiration for them all.

Video 1 is the healthcare professional panel

m.youtube.com/watch?v=xQKoFXXFVs4

Video 2 is reidentified young women (two other women spoke off camera too):

m.youtube.com/watch?v=stBt7_NTT3o

Poly

This is the best, clearest advice I have found:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=j3nnP7R-2Vo

It’s an amalgamation of the advice given by therapists Lisa Marchiano and Sasha Ayad, both of whom have lots of experience with ROGD.

The maker of the video (a mother of a ROGD daughter) has other videos on her channel.

We are following this advice, which is, in a nutshell, understand the feelings of gender dysphoria are sincere, but stay skeptical that transition is the way to resolve the feelings and most importantly, delay, delay delay! Tell your child that the changes they want are big and you need time to process them.

My 13 year old DstepD ‘came out’ via an email from school two months ago. So far we have managed to avoid any changes except for a hair cut (and that was only from mid-back to shoulders).

My DH is devastated, he was a shared custody single dad for 7 years and much of his own ‘identity’ is father-of-daughter. It’s heart breaking.

I attended the detransitioners event in MCR (videos are up now but sound quality is bad. A transcript is being made. Will find links in a second) and had the chance to speak to a couple of the young women who have reidentified with their sex. One said there was little her mum could’ve done to stop it, but being there and open when she changed her mind was crucial.
All the young women said they wished they had had gender non-conforming/butch lesbian role models (made me wish for a ‘rent a butch auntie’ scheme).

I've been pondering over the Xmas period, whether it might be useful to look at some cult rescue/deprogramming information and see if any of it can be applied to some of the situations we find ourselves in. I have a number of leads in that regard, if others think it might be a helpful idea?

Poly My DS is 17 and he is also cutting himself off from the family as he can’t take all the crap that comes with this. He can’t wait to head off to uni next year and spends most of his time at home in his room.

Re school- DD told her Year Head that she was a boy and the YH told our son and fully implemented it across the school but didn’t tell us! We complained to the Head and our complaint was upheld. The school’s position is that they should be neutral so while other children at the school refer to DD as he/him etc, at least the teachers aren’t doing so now and I think psychologically that is very important. I think once it is validated and reinforced by the trusted adults around the child, it can be incredibly difficult for the child to then find a way back out if they change their minds.

@3dogs2cats "It really is like witch trials, I’m scared to speak. We had 18 months of hell, but at 16 she seems to be a girl again." So glad your dd is herself again. Did anything facilitate that?

@FloralBunting I'm so sorry to hear about what happened to your daughter. But so pleased she too feels like a girl again.

Interesting article about the move from children's services to adult services in the NHS:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nhs-plans-to-save-teenagers-from-cliff-edge-move-to-adult-healthcare-pcvpvq8rt?shareToken=200afe06ecfb72467de69fddef28081a

From the article, the NHS says: "the evidence shows that full development takes until around 25".

I wish that part of the NHS would tell their gender identity clinics.

Thank you so much everyone for your replies. It really helps to know we are not alone. Our family seems to have been fractured by this, my eldest is 18 and has basically moved out to a friend's place as she feels she can't be around her younger sisters and study for A levels too.
DD is 16 and is out as gay, I have no issues there but she has been an encouraging force for her younger sister and is fiercely pro trans. She is furiously calling us Terfs and I'm sure she is behind the Xmas day announcement idea. She is also autistic and says she is disappointed in our ( mainly mine- I can't stop crying :( ) reaction to DD3s news.
DS is 11 and is delighted to have a brother at last. Bless
I need to contact the school next week as DD3 is at an all girls school- they do have some trans kids there but they are gender neutral and DD3 is adament she wants to be known as a male. I can't see how this can work but I really fear for her if she moves to local co ed schools.
DD3 has already started 'remembering' things wrongly. She had her hair cut short as I insisted as she wouldn't care for it while long. She wasn't that happy about it. But she's telling everyone she chose to cut it hersefl, to look like a boy.
I'm calling her out on these things so she's cross with me.
We are a complicated family anyhow due to everyone's SNs- I feel like this will destroy us as a family :(

Trying to maintain a neutral stance, based on facts, actual past history, correct information and concern for your child's health and future is the most loving thing we, as parents, can do

Absolutely this.

I'm so sorry to hear what's happened Polyplax. All of us on this thread completely understand how you are feeling right now

Knowledge is absolutely key for us ROGD parents.

When a child suddenly 'comes out' as trans, it's like being hit by a juggernaut.

We're 2.5 years down the line and are only now connecting with other parents. We were so caught up in the shock, manipulation, gaslighting and associated behaviours that go along with this that we retreated into ourselves in order to process everything and survive.

The battle is always centred around truth and reality. And that makes it extremely hard when each individual young person is absolute that this is how they feel, have always felt, will always feel. That's an almost impossible premise
to challenge and terminates further thought and discussion.

Trying to maintain a neutral stance, based on facts, actual past history, correct information and concern for your child's health and future is the most loving thing we, as parents, can do.

Of course, young people caught up in this will not thank us for that approach, as they are told everywhere they look that they must be fully accepted as their 'authentic self' or else. The 'or else' means that for many of us
with older independent children, we have been estranged. The message is that they should cut off from family and friends who don't collude.

If our children are given time, unconditional love and acceptance for who they actually are - without affirming their trans status and identity - then we can hopefully help them to keep their future options open.

When we did finally connect with other parents we saw how similar every story is. Everything our child insisted was about her as an individual, actually belonged to a collective narrative. Our child has done everything possible to shut down critical thinking amongst family and friends - divide and rule, for or 'against'. It's heartbreaking - but it's all part of it.

I'm starting to see that the only way forward is to join our stories and knowledge together, keep hold of the truth, and to do everything we can to insist that clinicians provide an alternative to the affirmation pathway, via therapy and other psychological services.

I'm so sorry you're going through this, everyone.

I wondered if there was a list of videos by detransitioned people that could be a useful resource?

Something the children could watch that they might feel helpful, giving a point of view from experience that they might listen to?

Thank you for starting this support thread.

Young person came 'out' at 13, over two years ago. Female, identifying as male. Prior to coming out there was a period of interest in anime/lots of internet use etc.

ASD, bisexual maybe, and also suicidal at times. All very difficult. Now being as supportive as we can as we feel no choice in matter at all.

Just watching and waiting and hoping.

Janes. Thank you. I realised what bollocks it was about 6 months down the line. When she came out we naively assumed that there would be some continuing help with asd and the other conditions she has. We did think we could explore why she felt like this, what the underlying issue was. After all she was already under CAMHS and we were already getting help with asd. Once out as trans though that stopped and I feel we were steamrollered into acceptance. I did want to look at private help but we were pressured away from that.

Then I started reading, read some more and got angry. I’m not sure if it’s too late or if she will engage to get private help or even where to go. I have very little trust is so many professionals now.

Smallblanket. This is what scares me. We had hoped that the gender clinic would be thorough but I have concerns. Dd would like children one day and I can’t square that with the treatment she wants. It doesn’t make sense and no one seems to realise this. Her asd diagnosis was so thorough yet this was diagnosed in less than 30 seconds

And I echo Janes, you have every right to be upset. Dd has ASD, we got her to understand that we were upset by explaining it was a big change for us. She doesn’t like change, but with support can cope with it. She could then see why we might be upset!

Hello all - don’t know how I missed this thread!

My daughter identified as trans from age 11-15. She’s now 19, It’s taken her 4 years to get to the point that she can rationalise that time of her life.

Poly that must’ve been stressful day. You’ve had some good advice here. Take things a day at a time. Remember, that to your child their feelings are very real.

As your daughter is under 16, you can make a Drs appointment in her name, but go without her. This is what I did. I was very open with our GP about my fears of later regret, etc. It got the ball rolling, dd felt listened to and was referred on. The long waiting lists for each stage were a blessing.

Talk through your worries calmly with your child, show them the articles online about using binders while still growing - how they can cause breast tissue to grow into the rib cage. Being honest about my health concerns regarding all the drugs and surgery, not lecturing dd, helped. We researched it together.

Janes - I totally agree. Once dd’s OCD was treated, her life changed.

The mental health services are shockingly underfunded, which compounds the issue. Local CAMHS are so over subscribed, that it’s seen as easier for them to sign children off to the Tavistock, to shift them off their waiting lists. They just don’t have the resources to provide counselling to anyone. In our county it’s outsourced to a local charity who rely on trainee psychologists and people who have done a 1 year counselling course via the church.

I do know that in our area transgender youth were prioritised for medication checks and prescribing, when the CAMHS service only had 1 part-time locum psychiatrist for a year. Many children and young people were left being prescribed harmful medication, without the due diligence of physical or mental check-ups.

Also, 100% agree with iamright - don't tell family, don't feed the fire. As best you can, stay outside of the drama of it all. Nothing is urgent.

I wasn’t allowed to be upset

I'm so sorry. You're allowed to be upset here. We're not going to guiltwash you with demands that you kill off your emotional life in order to be a good, supportive mum.

It’s instantly affirm all the way. To do otherwise is emotional harm

An absolute lie.

Having seen the mental health improvements in my now adult child under lack of affirmation + adequate mental health treatment for co-morbid conditions + education and understanding of their ASD and how it manifests, I can assure you, the only people doing harm were the fast-tracking cheer squad.