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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Following on from jelly babies I give you....

58 replies

Youwontcatchme · 15/11/2019 22:34

The genderbread person.

Introduced as a resource at multi agency training today at a school, the trainer was wearing a TWAW t-shirt.

Very directive training, almost militant - affirmation is the only way. Lots of skepticism and even some sniggering from the staff attending, and attempts we’re made to challenge the trainer but they would not deviate from the dogma.

I was looking for the thread that was on here asking for training experiences but couldn’t find it, apologies for starting a new thread.

Following on from jelly babies I give you....
OP posts:
TruthOnTrial · 16/11/2019 09:04

What a shame that you weren't all wearing Woman = Aduot Human Female t'shirt,might have been a bit of a stand off.

Invite them back for a proper debate whilst wearing your own factual t'shirts.

Were there science teachers listening and absorbing this without challenging it Confused

ValancyRedfern · 16/11/2019 08:59

Glad there was a sceptical response at your school OP.

ValancyRedfern · 16/11/2019 08:58

The GenderBread person has been around for a while. It's recommended as a resource among pshe teachers.

Youwontcatchme · 16/11/2019 08:55

The trainer said the bit about it being unfair as she would clearly be identifying as a male, and by not making her aware of her options (ie to be trans) we are removing her freedom of choice.

The person asking (male) said but she wouldn’t magically grow a penis so how could a girl become a man and the trainer said not all men have penises. It really was excruciatingly uncomfortable training.

OP posts:
LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 16/11/2019 08:37

What did the trainer say?

Youwontcatchme · 16/11/2019 08:35

*genderbread person - not man - whoops

OP posts:
Youwontcatchme · 16/11/2019 08:34

The majority of the sniggers came from male staff - am I allowed to say male? A pile of the resources were left on a table to help ourselves to, hardly any were taken. I have never seen the genderbread man before, apologies if has been around for ages. Someone asked the trainer why can’t we just leave the students alone, if a girl wants to dress in a masculine way then just let her, apparently that is unfair as she would clearly be identifying as a male, and by not making her aware of her options (ie to be trans) we are removing her freedom of choice.

OP posts:
HandsOffMyRights · 16/11/2019 08:18

The fox ate the Gingerbread Man in the original story. Those damn foxes get everywhere. My cousin had some in the hen house.

So I'm not allowed to wear one of Posie's T-Shirts but this individual can wear an offensive T-shirt and that's acceptable?

Melroses · 16/11/2019 08:11

Lots of skepticism and even some sniggering from the staff attending, and attempts we’re made to challenge the trainer

Sounds like you work with people who aren’t easily gaslighted.

Oh yes, the genderbread bollox. I hope there are lots of complaints about the standard of the training.

Isn't there a Gender Unicorn that does the rounds somewhere?

icecreamsundae32 · 16/11/2019 08:08
Hmm
AnyOldPrion · 16/11/2019 07:56

Lots of skepticism and even some sniggering from the staff attending, and attempts we’re made to challenge the trainer

Sounds like you work with people who aren’t easily gaslighted.

yetanotherusernameAgain · 16/11/2019 07:54

Well it's not new, it's been around for years.

Smallblanket · 16/11/2019 07:42

If they were trying to say that "people have a range of personalities and ways of presenting themselves irrespective of their biological sex", we would be getting somewhere.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 16/11/2019 07:39

Also "attraction" should be pointing at the groin, but we all know why it isn't (hearts not parts).

OhHolyJesus · 16/11/2019 07:31

I can't be a gingerbread person, I express myself using the whole, not just the left side of my body.

I also am not baked goods.

TheShoesa · 16/11/2019 07:30

If they changed that graphic to make sex male / female and expression the M/F/both symbol, and also took away *ness from the key underneath, it would be quite a useful image IMO

MadamBatty · 16/11/2019 07:01

I’ve seen this. It was used in my company in Ireland. I challenged it but tutted down (didn’t take you for a bigot).

NonnyMouse1337 · 16/11/2019 06:34

Expression is the dotted line that extends towards the head and foot of the gingerbread person. It's basically your sense of style and fashion as part of your personality.

Sometimes we’re talking about sex assigned at birth, and a lot of other times we’re talking about the anatomical sex that someone embodies (which changes, for all of us, throughout the course of our lives — although that change is, for some of us, more drastically, or for different reasons, than others).

WTF?! Confused

EL2019 · 16/11/2019 02:18

I agree and feminists definitely aren’t women at least not the nice “female-ness” type.

Although I will give the leaflet credit for saying you can be attracted to “Women and/or Feminine and/or Female people”
Which reading between the lines means that it is ok to turn down “women with lady dicks” if that’s not your romantic or sexual orientation.

However it loses points as it uses woman as the gender identity description so by woman it means anyone who identifies as one. What we mean by woman gets consigned you “female people”.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 16/11/2019 02:07

and a lot of other times we’re talking about the anatomical sex that someone embodies (which changes, for all of us, throughout the course of our lives

Do they think "child" and "adult" are different sexes? I was going to ask if they think post-menopause is a different sex to "woman" and then stopped and went, wait, of course they do, the misogynistic arseholes.

EL2019 · 16/11/2019 02:04

From the link posted:

Others really find the benefit of discussing the variations of anatomical sex using continua, and have argued for that for years.

Wait what? Sex isn’t a continua.

And also:

Sometimes we’re talking about sex assigned at birth, and a lot of other times we’re talking about the anatomical sex that someone embodies (which changes, for all of us, throughout the course of our lives — although that change is, for some of us, more drastically, or for different reasons, than others).

Again, What? Anatomical sex changes for everyone throughout the course of our lives? Seriously?

I haven’t even finished reading it

Macareaux · 16/11/2019 02:02

I think that's probably precisely what they mean, kittens.

I think this preceded jelly babies. It's been round in various formats for ages and is used in schools too. Worryingly.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 16/11/2019 01:26

Maybe they think the primary means of gender expression is whether or not you shave your pits.

ffswhatnext · 16/11/2019 01:22

I was wondering the same about expression.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 16/11/2019 01:16

Not that it's the point, but why is "expression" pointing to its armpit?

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