Posie Parker on Triggernometry

a broader struggle which is the shutting down of debate in general.

Trigger, watched your interview with Douglas Murray and with PP and I completely agree with you about this. The authoritarianism which has taken hold in academia is having an extremely damaging effect upon the Enlightenment values many of us took for granted. The concept of I don’t agree with you but will defend your right to have a dissenting opinion has gone. This hasn’t happened overnight, this erosion of freedom of speech has evolved over the last two decades. This is the cultural battle of the 21st century and its outcome will determine whether we are living in a Newspeak nightmare or an Open Society. The latter has many powerful enemies.

Trig (makes me think of only fools and horses) I see your point about how feminists asked for it (I know you aren't putting it in those terms.)

My view is, to a degree some feminists did, at least they call themselves feminists. Men have been in women's spaces for decades, I think it's fair to say that women have been taught to be kind, quiet and to step aside and there has been talk on this board that there was a tacit agreement where we saw a man in a wig and a dress using the women's loos and we wouldn't complain (but we never had to use the word woman to describe him). To a degree this was fine, for a while. Then men like this, but not all of these men, wanted more but they didn't ask politely, in fact no one actually asked us, they just took it. Men did that, not women.

I know two women personally - one who doesn't have a problem with mixed sex toilets and another who uses phrases like 'pregnant people'. For me, they are partly responsible and I now struggle to be around them. Many of us have lost friends, have been silenced to varying degrees, have been accused of awful things and been given awful labels. None of this we asked for, it is not our fault.

Like many of the women here, I am angry and scared and that comes across in a different way here than it would if we were face to face having a calm debate like you did with Posie.

I'm going back to your channel to watch the India W episode, I will watch out for more. Posie has raised your profile!

Please stick around and tell us what is happening with getting Posie's episode reinstated and there's a good thread for Newbies if you're interested, also the Break it Down for Me thread and the It Never Happens thread, along with the Trans Widows and Parents of RODG kids would be a good read for you to find your feet. All questions welcome.

@Triggerpod Emma Hilton would be amazing for you to have on. Also Claire Graham.
The trans issue is at the very heart of free speech issues. It exemplifies the issues of free speech, censorship, compelled speech and hate crime. Please don't dismiss this as a feminist side issue; it really isn't.

And we haven't even started to talk about the abuse of children in the name of transgender ideology!!!!!

Oh I beg your pardon, the Maya Forstater thread is back up

Yeah I think you'll find we know a bit about free speech Trig. Take a look at the Maya Forstater thread. Only you can't because it's been taken down.

If you stick around, you'll see that feminists disagree on practically everything and always have. Hope you do stay - lots of material for you and it could be fun!

Lisa Muggeridge's video on mothers is another one I find interesting in terms of things we can't opt out of and things the societies we live in absolutely know and in fact rely upon us not opting out of. Sex classes aren't optional.

Thanks whoever posted the Trig video (can't see your name now!) on the second site - I had been waiting to watch it then shocked that it had been removed (well, removed so quickly at least).

I wish Posie had had time to mention trans lesbians - that's a peaky blinder. It's great hearing her having time to speak though. Normally she's got a short time frame with some type of combative fellow guest speaker or interviewer who are merely trying to get a ride out of her. Nice to hear an adult interview - and have disagreement without assholery or pseudo hurty feels.

Interested to see other interviews by the Trig guys now. Tempted to test how I feel it goes with someone like IW..but I already know I can't watch an hour of that person...

And KettlePolly thanks for the Berns video on AD - my god that is a good one and I'd somehow missed it!

What BickerinBrattle just said.

Once you see it like that you see how preposterous and nonsensical it is for someone to "opt in" to that sex class by choice. We can't opt out. Babygirls killed off at birth in some countries can't. Girls in forced marriages can't. Women who need a man's permission to travel or drive can't.

Magdalen Berns' video on Stonewall would be a good reference here re. "Living full time as a woman."

ScrimshawTheSecond Thank you for the link. I woke up ridiculously early and it’s been a perfect watch.

Actual feminists, as opposed to funfem libfems steeped in postmodernism, don't think of women as an identity.

Following Engels, they think of women as an economic class the providers of sexual, domestic, and reproductive labour the ones who produce the workers the economy requires.

"whole "speaking as a woman" nonsense"

Who even says this? It's like the famous boogeywoman who screams at men holding doors open, popular in men's imaginations yet never personally witnessed.

When I want my opinion taken seriously online I most definitely do NOT preface my comment with an admission that I'm of the bobble-brained bimbo babymaker clan.

I know you ladies have a particular issue with the gender ideology but for us this is about a much broader struggle which is the shutting down of debate in general.

@Triggerpod you don't need to lecture us about the free speech issue - many of us have already been banned from Twitter. Most of the conversations in the last 24 hrs (MForstater, Caroline Farrow...) have been about women being censored/threatened/silenced for their views.

Have you stopped to think that this is actually an even bigger issue than the "shutting down of debate"? We're talking about moving into a world where everyone can define their own subjective truth, entirely divorced from material facts, and we all have to "respect their reality". We're not just shutting down debate - we are heading towards 2+2=5. On Monday a court of law heard a barrister argue that a belief in male and female biological sex is an incoherent conspiracy theory made up in the last few years. It's chilling.

I’ve watched loads of your podcast episodes (recent favourites being Lionel Shriver and Douglas Murray. I’ve even watched some of your live Q&As (well, I say watched, more sort of listened to while I did the washing up or scraped wallpaper). I thought the India Willoughby one was a bit incurious around the subject of trans inclusion in women’s sport but you more than made up for it with Zuby and Posie.

I hope you don’t give up on this battle - making space for robust disagreement is vital work.
Can you have Julie Bindel on next please? She’s very funny and will happily explain why women aren’t to blame for what men do. Or Miranda Yardley - a transsexual who is more or less the antithesis of Willoughby (and just as controversial as Posie).

Good luck!

You should see me on Facebook, butterisbest. Tumbleweeds...

Floral for that comment alone I'd welcome a like button

See, I'm almost getting a nostalgic thrill for being able to openly, swearily disagree with someone with different views without either of us running off to the teachers moaning about how wounded we are.

Breath of fucking fresh air.

I also don't agree with what you said there, K, but I can match your anger at being silenced

I hope you lend your weight in any way you can to shine light on these fuckers who are trying to control the prevailing narrative. As a journalist and a broadcaster, you have more poke than I do, for sure

That is not to say, I personally recognise such a thing as gender identity, even though some seem to

'Identity' doesn't trump the reality of sex, however.

How about 'Men who identify as Women'. That sounds just about fair and accurate for everyone. It acknowledges 'gender identity', whilst also acknowledging the reality of biological sex.

ǝɹǝɥʇ ʇɥƃᴉɹ ɥɔǝǝds ǝǝɹℲ

Good to see you have a range of opinions here :)

Yours sincerely, your favourite "MRA" :D

@Triggerpod

I know you ladies have a particular issue with the gender ideology but for us this is about a much broader struggle which is the shutting down of debate in general.

As I said to Posie in the interview, unfortunately feminists have to take some responsibility for opening the door to this with the whole "speaking as a woman" nonsense. I know this isn't a popular thing to say on the Mumsnet feminist forum grin but as long as we have identity politics we will have creeping authoritarianism.

Of course different groups have their own issues but shutting people down because of their genitals or skin colour has to end. We really wish more people understood this.

You can f*ck right off with this attitude.

Men of all flavours (free speech / libertarians etc etc) have been telling women that there are bigger issues that women should join men to fight rather then their “particular issues”.

Surprise surprise, that men always have bigger issues on hand then women’s particular issues, how about but for once men consider women’s particular issues more important then any thing else.

Men are responsible for this not women - of any flavour, men did not jump on the trans racial identity because that would impact black and white men but they jumped on the trans gender identity because it only impacts women and they can shout kill the t*rf type misogyny at women openly again with applause.

So you can fck off over there and then fck off even more.

˙pǝןןɐʇs uıɐɹqʎpɐ˥

"speaking as a woman" who has been blocked, silenced and dismissed by women for saying that biological facts matter...my conclusion is that being a wanker is not a sex linked trait.

Handmaidens are silly.