Anyone want to talk about men, women, and sex?

At one point I probably would have said I enjoyed it but I don't do it anymore. I think most of the enjoyment for me came from it being new/different/taboo/edgy/exciting. That wears off once you've done it a few times.

Let's also be honest - an anus is not the same as a vagina. You can easily, permanently damage yourself doing this and it pisses me off that many men seem to have no regard for that whatsoever when they're pressuring their girlfriends into it.

Agree with what Goosefoot said.

I think there are a lot of things going on with this.

I guess the simplest element is that yes, there are some women who like anal sex, or for that matter other things that might be considered niche.

I am not sure I'd say that I think men overall are happy to go on pushing women. My observation and experience has been that the experience of sex can be significantly different for women compared to men, and this leads to a very different way of thinking and acting.

For most men, it's a fairly straightforward enjoyable, or occasionally not enjoyable, experience. Yes, there are things like feeling inadequate or embarrassed or having a partner who is not a nice person. But whether they enjoy the actual act of sex or not is pretty clear to men on the whole. They also tend to think it's going to be fairly clear to women.

For women though, even though they might be really interested in sex, or find the idea of something a turn on, it can be a lot more complicated to make it work in practice. Lots of women take years to figure out how to really make the most of sex, to have an orgasm, sometimes to figure out how to avoid discomfort. So for many women, it's a process and they are somewhat used to the experience of having sex that doesn't quite work. They don't necessarily conclude though that it's bad sex, they may enjoy the mental part, or being with their partner, or being an object of desire, and maybe they also hope that they will be able to improve the experience itself over time.

So when a woman is asked to try something like anal sex, maybe it's not that strange to many that it isn't something that they enjoy right away. They might tend to assume that over time it will get better, or they might find the idea a turn on because it's kinky or they saw it in porn or whatever.

For me the bottom line with this is that it's difficult for a man, even a nice one, to interpret the situation without some clear feed-back - he has probably had partners who had mixed experiences of sex on a lot of occasions, and maybe isn't accustomed to quizzing them about that which I suspect many would not like. With things like anal sex, given that there is so much media telling women they should and will like it, I guess men are going to get the same message. Until a lot of women start telling them that it isn't working for them, they probably won't question that too much. (They also may believe that anal is popular with gay men, so they won't see it as something men never do.)

In terms of the sexual compatibility issue - yeah, I find the idea that if your tastes aren't matched you aren't compatible really depressing. There has been a lot of emphasis for many years on sexual fulfilment as extremely important though, and about zero on the idea that people can be happy and fulfilled without sex even with a normal sex drive. Lots of people know its bollocks of course but it does seem to be the dominant cultural narrative.

Or a damning indictment of those surveyed - which may or may not have been a representative sample

See the link. And then if you like you can let the researchers know if you have any concerns about their study's methodology.

Women experiencing pain were often depicted as naive or flawed. Men and women said that women needed to ‘relax’ more, to ‘get used to it’:

Note that Mark refers, almost casually, to the idea that a woman might be ‘scared’ or ‘not willing’ in a scenario in which anal sex is possibly taking place, seemingly assuming a shared understanding with the interviewer that this would often be the case. Elsewhere in the interview, he talks about having hurt his partner during an anal sex ‘slip’ (see below), and so his talk about ‘easing off’ may reflect his ownperhaps more recentunderstanding of how it ‘should’ be performed.

bmjopen.bmj.com/content/4/8/e004996

The BMJ study.

Some women absolutely do say they enjoy anal and perhaps they truly do enjoy the sensation - human sexuality is quite complex though, so I would imagine that some people enjoy the perceived edginess of it, or prioritise pleasing their partner over themselves.

YY this is very true I think.

Sexual activity is the channel people use to replay damaging and exploitative situations they have encountered

Listening to the opinions of women tells me that neither of those sentences is true for everyone

As i said, I suggest these 'likes' arise from exposure & 'normalisation'; or from personal trauma of one sort or other. Sexual; activity becomes a way to re-play damaged relationships and lack of love. I'm not saying some women don't actively engage in these types of activity - but that they are not pursued out of any feelings of self worth. Quite the contrary.

A friend of a friend got divorced a while back and started online dating for the first time ever.
She discovered anal sex for the first time, and her love for it, put she was interested in anal on her dating profile, and delighted in telling our group in detail about how much she loved it and was buying new toys and lubes and all sorts.
There's no way I'm going to tell her, actually you don't enjoy it, you're wrong.

..about 1/3 of women report they enjoy anal...

Isn't the OP's friend lucky then that all the women he had penetrated just happened to be from that 33%.

Really, really lucky.

Sarcasm smiley.

Which is something of a damning indictment of young men.

Or a damning indictment of those surveyed - which may or may not have been a representative sample

The best stats we have are from a BMJ article a few years ago (will look up ref when I get home). Three way split - about 1/3 of women report they enjoy anal, about 1/3 report it does nothing for them (what with lacking a prostate and the anus being a long way from the clitoris) and about a third find it painful and unpleasant.

The researchers also surveyed young men and their findings were most expected anal, most knew their partners were unlikely actively to want it and might well find it painful, but applied significant social and emotional pressure to get their partners to acquiesce.

Which is something of a damning indictment of young men. And sounds pretty much like your friend, OP.

This is definitely where I’m at, but I think knowing what you like and having the confidence to state and keep those boundaries can take experience/wisdom/maturity.
I agree and it's in this area that we should focus our attention. Raise our children to be assertive and to be able to state their own needs and have boundaries - whatever they may be.

I'm not sure it's right to try and police what people do in bed and to say it's right or wrong based on what we like.

As long as each party is consenting freely and willingly and it's not illegal then it's up to them what they enjoy.

I had a friend who very enthusiastically said she like anal sex for several years. Then, during a girly conversation one day, casually dropped in, 'oh I don't do that any more, I'm so over it' She didn't want to discuss it further so no idea on the thought process.

Why isn't a case of I like this, but you don't. Therefore we both need to find relationships with people who like what we like?

This is definitely where I’m at, but I think knowing what you like and having the confidence to state and keep those boundaries can take experience/wisdom/maturity.

Took me several decades and three husbands!

Not all women are the same and I wish this trend 'oh, she likes anal (insert something generally viewed as unpleasant), so she must be coerced/pressurized by partner/influenced by porn/brainwashed, poor thing' would stop.

I genuinely enjoy anal and rough sex (not bdsm, not extreme, though). No one pressured/brainwashed me to do it, I just like it, always did, and actively ask for it if I'm with someone. I've met men who don't like it and refused to do it when I suggested. That's fine, we all like different things. I've also met a man who doesn't like and doesn't want blow-jobs. We're all different.

Obviously, no woman (or man) should be pressured to do something they don't want to do, that's wrong. But to think that just because you don't like something/find something disgusting, then all other people should feel the same is silly. Or if they DO like it, then they surely are brainwashed/forced/whatever.

And if the idea that “we’re not sexually compatible” means, “you’re not a worthy partner ‘cause you won’t have a threesome.”

Well, I think you need to unpack that statement a bit.

If a partner particularly wants threesomes but the other doesn't then they are incompatible aren't they? I'm not sure where the "you're not a worthy partner" comes from.

Why isn't a case of I like this, but you don't. Therefore we both need to find relationships with people who like what we like?

There was a thread running the other day where the husband didn't like giving oral and didn't really seem to like piv sex. The female op was advised that as she wanted these things she was better off leaving a finding a relationship that made her happy. That's right surely? Otherwise you're saying either he had to do things that he didn't want to (which is wrong) or she had to settle for an unfulfilling sex life (which is wrong).

I'm not really sure what you think is the right answer here. No one should do anything that they don't want to do willingly but equally no one should have to stay in a relationship that doesn't make them happy. Do you disagree?

Some women absolutely do say they enjoy anal and perhaps they truly do enjoy the sensation - human sexuality is quite complex though, so I would imagine that some people enjoy the perceived edginess of it, or prioritise pleasing their partner over themselves.

If everyone your friend has slept with has found anal penetration tolerable, I would make the assumption that he has a smaller than average penis!

The thing is though, women don't have the same nerve endings up there that men do.
Men can orgasm through prostate stimulation. Women don't have a prostate.

I think most women who claim to love anal are just showing off, most can't actually come through anal.

And why is this male friend of yours having anal sex with all these women? Anything to do with him, no?

I agree with you OP, they're probably just going along with it to "be nice" as women are socialised to be.

Can you not understand that people enjoy different things? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean someone else won't.

And if 2 people like different things sexually then they do need to consider if they're compatible or not. No one should do something they don't want to just to keep their partner happy. Likewise no one should have to put up with an unsatisfying sex life because their partner doesn't like what they like. The best policy is to split up in that case.

we don’t want to lose them over something silly

I wouldn't call a distaste for and refusal to being buggered "something silly"! We all have a tendency to believe the things we want and enjoy are reciprocated but that's not always true.

IMO, men think that women view sex in the same way they do. So, if a man wants sex with a woman, he assumes she feels the same. If a man wants anal, he assumes the woman does. If a man wants rough sex, he assumes the woman does. Sometimes, he will be right, sometimes not, but often he won't bother to check. And many of them still don't know how a woman orgasms. I told one guy (many years ago) that I hadn't orgasmed and he told me I'd have to wait till he was ready again - obviously no idea that sex meant more than just penetration! And he had no idea why I was furious with his response. Also, a lot of men think they are absolute gods when it comes to sex - I think they feel validated by their performance. Education about the different male and female sexual responses would really help. And, yes, I know this a general view and some women have higher sex drives, and some women do like anal sex, and some women do like rough sex.

*I'd like to see that.

Linky-poo?*

It was a while ago... I'll try and find it.