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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Anyone want to talk about men, women, and sex?

182 replies

PuertoVallarta · 14/11/2019 10:59

I am trying to think through some ideas around sex and relationships. I apologize if my ideas are not that clear. I suppose that’s why I need help.

Was talking with a male friend who told me all the women he’s been with have enjoyed anal sex. And I said, “You don’t know that. Of course they’re going to act like they like it. They know they have to like it.” He was surprised and very hurt. I felt bad for casting doubt on his previous relations. I had no proof that these women were faking it, just because I myself can’t imagine anyone liking it.

But I do believe in my heart of hearts that women know they have to like sex stuff unquestioningly. On one hand, because we don’t want to hurt men’s feelings. On another hand, because we love men and we enjoy our relationships and we don’t want to lose them over something silly.

And I also believe that men don’t really consider women’s feelings in the same way. Instead of going along because they are scared of hurting us, the vast majority of men will harbor a growing resentment toward a female partner who denies them certain sex acts that they want.

When I asked the people around me, all I got was the same answer: “If one person wants to do something in the bedroom, and the other person doesn’t, then they are not sexually compatible. He shouldn’t pressure her. He should just leave her so they can both find someone they are compatible with.”

It is so depressing to me! Am I just being a control freak to think it’s unfair to ask women (almost all women, I think) to either give it up or be abandoned? Yes, I know nobody is entitled to a relationship. But I feel like this idea of “compatibility” is a result of women’s worth being tied to what we can provide sexually. A few days have passed since this discussion. My friend is still hurt by my comment, and I am sinking into a depression thinking about how this notion of “compatibility” might just be a way to keep women in line.

Perhaps my thinking is way off the mark. If anyone has time to share their own thoughts, it would be appreciated.

OP posts:
Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 15/11/2019 11:00

Well, yes. Presumably suitably convincing evidence was put forward but I can't imagine what it was.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 15/11/2019 10:52

Well, without hearing the evidence that they heard, on the surface it would appear that they are hard of thinking wouldn't it?

Maybe

I am very interested in why a jury of our peers felt that this could ever be a consensual act

that shit of a man went to prison for 3 years 8 months for manslaughter

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 15/11/2019 10:49

Well, without hearing the evidence that they heard, on the surface it would appear that they are hard of thinking wouldn't it?

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 15/11/2019 10:44

I can draw the distinction between consenting to a mutually pleasurable act and doing something that results in the serious injury, or death, of one of the participants so I don't see why that is impossible for the CPS or judges to do

well, actually the important people here are jurors. and apparently they don't have your analytical skills, since they believed that ripping open a woman's vagina with a spray bottle was a concensual act

the overton window is over there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 15/11/2019 10:42

do you think the 'what people do in the bedroom is private and we should let them get on with it unless you're a missionary position prude' stuff could have anything to do with it?

I can draw the distinction between consenting to a mutually pleasurable act and doing something that results in the serious injury, or death, of one of the participants so I don't see why that is impossible for the CPS or judges to do.

Citing driving as an example again, if I drive my car dangerously or without due care I can be prosecuted. If I injure or kill someone as a result I can be prosecuted. We can make those distinctions without banning all cars.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 15/11/2019 10:39

You're just being goady though aren't you

hands up

I haven't accused you of being boring in bed though, so there is that

Ereshkigal · 15/11/2019 10:38

do you think the 'what people do in the bedroom is private and we should let them get on with it unless you're a missionary position prude' stuff could have anything to do with it?

Quite.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 15/11/2019 10:37

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly

You're just being goady though aren't you.

As you can see from my words, that you quoted and selectively highlighted, I said

Extreme acts that could result in serious injury I am sure would be covered by the law.

I.dont consider anal sex to be anymore extreme than PIV sex. So no, I'm not be inconsistent nor have I changed my mind.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 15/11/2019 10:36

How do I know why? I'm not the CPS, or the juries or the judiciary. It should be applied consistently. I can't answer for why it isn't

do you think the 'what people do in the bedroom is private and we should let them get on with it unless you're a missionary position prude' stuff could have anything to do with it?

just a thought

Justhadathought · 15/11/2019 10:36

Humans are a violent species. I'm just not sure it's something we should be uncritically embracing

That's my take too. Degradation and abuse may well be part of everyday life, but I have always had higher aspirations for humanity. Can't believe any child comes into this world with an instinct to be hurt or brutalised.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 15/11/2019 10:35

Why do you only see PIV sex as the norm?

where did I say that? It was an example of one of the many chandelier swinging sex acts I participate in that don't involve hurting people or being hurt

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 15/11/2019 10:34

Did Bernard get an answer from hooves about why the law is not applied consistently?... thought not....

How do I know why? I'm not the CPS, or the juries or the judiciary. It should be applied consistently. I can't answer for why it isn't.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 15/11/2019 10:34

but if you;ve changed your mind about that,. that's fine

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 15/11/2019 10:33

Extreme acts that could result in serious injury I am sure would be covered by the law

was your exact wording Hooves

anal sex could (and does with reasonable frequency) result in serious injury

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 15/11/2019 10:33

Injecting heroine is usually consensual too, should we legalise that?

I think there is a case to be made for legalising all drugs. Prohibition rarely works and seldom protects the people that it purports to be in place for.

Justhadathought · 15/11/2019 10:32

Why are you so hung up on what other people do in private? If it is legal and everyone consents then why is it any of your business?

'Consent', as with 'like' is an interesting concept.......Many of us consent to things we don't like or which cause us misery/suffering/ anguish in our daily lives - through failure to take steps to end that 'thing', or because we are so used to that 'thing' that it seems somehow inevitable...or exceedingly difficult to extract ourself from.

What do you make of the recent and growing cases of women killed during so called 'consensual' acts of choking or strangulation?
The most recent, highly publicised case, involves Grace Spillane: a young back-packer killed in New Zealand and her body buried in a suitcase. The defendant says it was a consensual activity.

Uncompromisingwoman · 15/11/2019 10:31

Did Bernard get an answer from hooves about why the law is not applied consistently?... thought not....

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 15/11/2019 10:31

if you don't see consensual PIV sex as completely different to hurting people or being hurt then you need to really analyse your views. Do you really feel that way?

Why do you only see PIV sex as the norm?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 15/11/2019 10:28

Anal sex can result in serious injury. should it be illegal?

No because it doesn't necessarily result in any injury at all. Driving a car can result in serious injury. Do you think that should be made illegal?

If any sex act is done recklessly or with an intent to cause serious injury or appropriate care wasn't taken to prevent injury then the person doing it should be subject to the law. I don't think you should ban certain acts simply because they could cause injury if due care isn't taken. Vaginal sex can result in serious injury if care isn't taken.

XXCoffeeHoneyBread · 15/11/2019 10:27

And the people having consensual BDSM sex would argue that they don't need protecting either.

Except for the one who ends up dead. The other insists it was consensual murder and there you have a legal (and not that rare any more) can of worms spilled open.

FWR is all about no more murdered women.

Injecting heroine is usually consensual too, should we legalise that?

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 15/11/2019 10:25

you seem very invested in it being OK to injure people or be injured for sexual pleasure Hooves

And the people having consensual BDSM sex would argue that they don't need protecting either.

if you don't see consensual PIV sex as completely different to hurting people or being hurt then you need to really analyse your views. Do you really feel that way?

It's you who is being illogical because you are saying that how you do it is right and anyone else needs protecting and basically don't know their own minds

Not everyone. but some people yes. Male / female interactions don't happen in a vacuum. We know that as a class men have a great deal more power than women, as well as being physically more powerful. We know that women and girls are socialised to put the needs and desires of men above their own

I'm not saying people can't hurt others during sex. I am saying I'll judge the fuck out of them for it, and the risk of the activity should be on them to encourage them to be really fucking sure that their partner has given informed consent

I'm not saying that people can't be hurt during sex. I am saying that I feel very sorry for them that they want bad things to happen to them, and I hope they get to a place where sex is about mutual pleasure, not pain.

judging the fuck out of sadists is my kink. what can I say?

Imnobody4 · 15/11/2019 10:21

"...Was talking with a male friend who told me all the women he’s been with have enjoyed anal sex..."
Just a thought - do all men enjoy anal sex? I know a lot of gay men don't do anal so what about straight men? Do they all like being anally penetrated?
Are women being asked to use a dildo on their boyfriends. Seems to me men are being denied sexual fulfilment after all they're the ones with the prostate.

Justhadathought · 15/11/2019 10:20

How many people do you know who want someone in debt, non-monogamous, opposite ideas about sex and who is unkind?

You may start out with someone who you think is the embodiment of all your needs, or who matches up to mental check-list - but people and their situations change...inevitably. And years later you may find yourself with that same someone who in certain ways no longer 'matches' you completely - and even in some important ways.

Ereshkigal · 15/11/2019 10:16

I "keep quoting" from it because you can't be arsed to read it but keep making assertions about it.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 15/11/2019 10:15

also this

Extreme acts that could result in serious injury I am sure would be covered by the law

Anal sex can result in serious injury. should it be illegal?