Help me understand...”Modest Fashion”

I'm not comfortable with ostentatious displays of wealth. They bring out the dour Presbyterian in me (despite being a born and raised atheist). I cannot reconcile extravagant designer clothes with the word 'modest' unless the word is simply and only about being covered up.

If covering up is the soul criteria by which women should be judged than women living in tropical climates will forever be judged 'immoral' and those in cold climates 'virtuous' when both are simply dressing appropriately for their climates. There is no way I can go along with that.

I have no objections to what what women decide to wear.

I object to their clothing being labelled and so used for point scoring of any kind.

It doesn't matter if it's a knock-off or not, the intention is to display wealth.

It might be a knock-off (that means fake, shona, before you ask). Plenty of teens have fake LV these days.

I think she looks banging.
How she looks is not the issue, the comment was on how it's the antithesis of 'modest' to make such an obvious display of wealth, and that applies to anyone from any culture.

I don't know what "banging" means.

She looks rich. I expect buying and wearing her LV goods gives her pleasure and that's fine- no problem there. Calling what she is wearing "modest" - not fine.

She looks very fashionable and stylish, but plastering yourself with the logos of designers known to sell expensive clothing out of the financial reach of the average person is the very antithesis of modest, however much or little skin or hair one is showing in the process.

I think she looks banging.

The point of the LV logo is to make everyone seeing the item know instantly that it is LV and that it cost a small fortune. Wearing LV is the exact opposite of "modest".

Eye catching ostentatious display of wealth is an accurate description of anything made by LV.

Trewser What do you think was derogatory about what Shona said?

Do you think that “modest” as a description of a woman’s clothing range has no value judgement attached to it at all?

Or it can be used as judgemental policing of women's clothing

When you say 'judgemental' do you mean posting a picture of a woman wearing clothes and then describing them in vaguely derogatory language?

Asking for a friend.

I've seen a lot of Arabic women dressed up to the nines in designer 'modest' clothing in London, arms laden with shopping bags and faces plastered with make-up. They looked very attractive and glamorous, kind of like Arabic Kim Kardashians. I fail to see how that style really is 'modest', it seems to come more from a cultural desire to display wealth

I give you the Louis Vuitton hijab. And to preempt Plan et al , no I am not saying women should not be allowed to wear a Louis Vuitton hijab but calling such an eye- catching ostentatious display of wealth "modest" is a bit silly isn't it?

Modest can mean having or showing a moderate or humble estimate of one's merits, importance, etc.; free from vanity, egotism, boastfulness, or great pretensions or -free from ostentation or showy extravagance: which are admirable.

Or it can be used as judgemental policing of women's clothing.

Edging towards a bunfight 🤣🤣

It's a full-on bunwar (in skinny jeans and vest tops)!

Well, its autumn winter now so i wouldn't expect many short sleeves about, but I bought two navy v neck short sleeve ts from primark about a month ago. I don't think its a conspiracy. Its always been hard to find the perfect t! Sunspel are amazing and do v necks but very expensive.

Trewser

Not in my area. I think it was last year Primark stopped selling their plain v neck t.shirts and there are none of there plain shortsleeved scooped neck t.shirts only long sleeved things out now.

I had a fairly good look around Uniqlo yesterday and didn’t see anything short sleeved.

I think the best approach to 'feminist fashion' would not be to focus on clothes at all and to encourage women to not police one another based upon their clothing, unlearning internalised misogyny. Women do the work of the patriarchy when they use terms such as 'modest' or 'slutty' etc. It's been expected of me to solve the problem of how women are supposed to make 'feminist fashion choices', which is misleading, as it suggests I would agree that women should be judged by what they wear, and there is some sort of correct feminist clothing choice to make so that women may be judged positively. Women shouldn't be judging each others' inner qualities based upon the length of her skirt at all, certainly not by using terms such as 'modest'. That's what needs to be unpacked, and that's what some of us here are attempting to do.

The industry exists to persuade people, especially women, to part with their hard earned buying new clothes they don't need every year in order to make £££. It doesn't give a damn about the sexualisation of women one way or the other and will jump on any bandwagon for profit

'Modest' is such a bandwagon. The industry doesn't care about the connotations of the word they just want women to spend money

That is a far more accurate analysis than Goosefoot's.

I remember an American Christian blogger talking about how it was about being kind to men in your life not to put them in “the occasion of sin....”

Goosefoot

You want an analysis of the fashion industry? Well here's mine.

The industry exists to persuade people, especially women, to part with their hard earned buying new clothes they don't need every year in order to make £££. It doesn't give a damn about the sexualisation of women one way or the other and will jump on any bandwagon for profit.

'Modest' is such a bandwagon. The industry doesn't care about the connotations of the word they just want women to spend money.

I, by contrast, don't give a damn about the clothes. They're just clothes. I care only about the connotations of the word 'modest' and the implication that by not following this fashion, which I won't be any more than I've followed any other, I am 'immodest'. Not immodest because my clothes are any more revealing than the fashion trend. If anything my clothes are less revealing. But immodest because I am not going out of my way to 'signal' my modesty by wearing the 'approved' style and being a good little girl who parts with £££ in order to gain that approval.

If the style of the season were labelled 'sexy' I would be equally irritated by the connotation that women who weren't falling for the demand we part with £££ weren't attractive.

Agree. I’m also giggling inwardly at the nonsense of the term ‘modest blogger’.
More seriously though, I realised when reading the piece how closely associated the word ‘modest’ is with concepts of self-effacement and self-erasure, which has made me even more troubled at the way it is entering the mainstream as an approbatory term for female behaviour.

Clothes fine- so long as women have a genuine free choice to wear them.

Calling them “modest” - not fine.

I've had another look at the BBC article. What a vacuous, dishonest puff piece it is. The pictures featured are of women wearing perfectly ordinary and not remotely noteworthy clothes of a kind that are just normal everyday wear.

Yes, Shona, some here seem to be determined to see us as hating all Muslim women for daring to discuss this topic. I find people who exhibit this attitude are often those who've hardly ever met any Muslim women in their life and are freaked out around them, desperate to talk about how 'cool' they are with another woman wearing a headscarf etc. Those of us who actually do see Muslim women as equals perhaps don't feel so much need to wrap them in cotton wool and tiptoe around this subject. If there's something they disagree with they're more than capable of engaging themselves and don't need a non- Muslim woman holding her hand to her forehead in a mock faint on their behalf.