Help me understand...”Modest Fashion”

You could try and find a different word for them to use instead, but in general people don't like imposed language changes so I wouldn't bother.

Like "cis"? Is that what you had in mind?

Perhaps they could ditch the word 'modest' which I agree is troublesome and use 'comfortable' or 'practical' instead?

And, yeah, blokes' clothing never gets the 'n' word used about it.

PlanDeRaccordement
Yes exactly

Shona- can you try to be civil today? Tired of your constant derogatory comments.

Arnold- UK is only 15% of the market for modest fashion. The big markets are USA and mainland Europe. Your personal experience is a minority one and not applicable to that of the majority.

Fuck modest, fashionable or whatever. Gimmee

• natural fibres, especially cotton
• elastic waists or otherwise comfy waists
• waists that come up to my waist
• plenty of colours to choose from
• clothes that last
• especially clothes that don't wear and tear in the inner leg
• knickers that don't rise up my arse
• necklines that neither strangle me nor reveal my tits
• enough give so they don't stretch across my tits or have buttons that pop open in the bust area
• crotch areas that don't give me wedgies or make me look like I live on the Bronx
• clothes that are affordable
• shoes with ankle support and arch support that are comfy.

No one has said that. All that has been said is that there was a lack of choice for non revealing but feminine, glamorous/professional clothes.
It was Laura Ashley tea dresses in floral or very masculine

I don't know where you live but this is complete and utter nonsense.

Trewser, I agree with everything you’ve posted.

But in the eighties these women and girls would have had to buy their tunics and trousers abroad and import them or sew them from fabric.

Nonsense, you could but them in What Everies. Some of the nicer materials for special occasions may have come from abroad but their day to day wear could be bought on the high street. My mum often wore similar attire, many women did.

I know exactly what kate Middleton would look like naked a bicycle. I know in the same way i know what kim k would look like.

Upfield, I am referring to your statement
Modest' fashion doesn't even attempt to criticise patriarchal hypocrisy, if it did there would be some similar form of satirical or ironic wearing of 'modest' garments involved.

Which implies to be feminist, a fashion must criticise patriarchy through satirical or ironic wearing. Care to explain now how a clubbing outfit is satirical or ironic criticism of the patriarchy but a modest outfit is not?

The Kim Kardaahian type of clothes, where I feel I know exactly what she’d look like naked, I’m less comfortable with.

The number of western women who dress like Kim Kardashian on a day to day basis is too small to be worth mentioning.

I see precisely nobody dressed in such a manner except on the occasional night out. It is ludicrous to suggest Kardashian is the norm.

Yes, they were not fashionable. Classic and well made, but dull and boring.

Did you literally not realise what it meant?

Why must there be satire or irony to qualify as feminist? An objective of conveying satire or irony is still dressing for the male gaze.
Point out to me the satire and irony in any clubbing outfit please.
What the devil are you going on about? Satire or irony is not required to be a feminist, a critique of patriarchal structures IS. That's what 'modest' fashion is missing. I've no idea why you're bringing clubbing outfits into it, I haven't mentioned them anywhere.

Arnold,
But in the eighties these women and girls would have had to buy their tunics and trousers abroad and import them or sew them from fabric. You could not buy them mainstream. Modest fashion are these clothes going mainstream so that they are as accessible and easy to buy as the usual western clothes.

Trewser
shonait's quite a well known phraseif you Google it its in the dictionary and everything

I don't know what relevance "in fashion" is supposed to have. I mentioned the sort of formal, highly tailored clothes female accountants, solicitors and bankers wore and which is readily available at all prices from High Street to top of the range.

simply not true that it has been impossible to buy non- revealing clothing.

No one has said that. All that has been said is that there was a lack of choice for non revealing but feminine, glamorous/professional clothes.
It was Laura Ashley tea dresses in floral or very masculine.
It’s similar to maternity wear. While it was never impossible to find maternity clothes, there were decades where the choice was limited to hideous bulky shifts with bows and teddy bear prints. There were no maternity jeans. No shirts to show off your belly. No professional work wear. There were no nursing bras or clothing to help breastfeed in public without undressing to be half naked.

I can assure you that the modest fashion trend started on the catwalks to appeal to rich Muslim women who love fashion. Then it filtered down, as fashion does.

Prior to modest fashion being added, there were no clothes for women from Eastern countries, especially Muslim women

This is complete and utter nonsense.

I saw muslim women, and older girls, wearing long loose trousers, tunics etc growing up in the 80s. I went to school with them. I used to be jealous of them because they were allowed to wear trousers to school when the rest of us girls had to wear skirts. We even used that point to argue that the rest of us should be allowed to wear trousers.

I grew up in a village and went to high school in a small Scottish town. I am not from a big city.

This is just not true of the UK.

“ Why would knowing what someone else's body shape was make you uncomfortable?”
It’s them pesky “urges” again......

I should have been clearer.

I guess I can tell what Kate Middleton’s sort of body shape is when she’s in formal wear. That isn’t what I mean.

The Kim Kardaahian type of clothes, where I feel I know exactly what she’d look like naked, I’m less comfortable with.

A bit like board shorts versus speedos. To me, it’s about privacy as much as temptation, and it’s just as relevant to men as to women.

I have friends who dress more in the Kardashian kind of style and blokes in very tight skinny jeans. That’s their choice and I don’t judge them. But I’m more deliberate about where I look, I guess!

shona it's quite a well known phrase if you Google it its in the dictionary and everything

www.forbes.com/sites/rebeccasuhrawardi/2018/11/15/its-the-age-of-modest-fashion-and-the-modist-is-leading-the-charge/

Good quote from this is about how modest fashion is a shift from male gaze to female gaze. Paraphrasing here. Women dressing to impress other women has never been about baring all, that is a function of the male gaze. The styles are about looking elegant and powerful, sexy on your own terms.

that trends of the 2010’s would be defined by modesty. It is, she declared, “the end of the naked look. The beginning of a new age of female pluri-empowerment’…as expressed through the kind of dress that prioritizes the individual and her needs over the clichés of female role play…The New York Timesbegan chronicling young women on the streets of Brooklyn layering clothes in creative ways that shielded or swaddled their bodies back in 2015. But it is only now reaching critical mass, thanks to a convergence of social, political and cultural factors as reflected in clothing.”

Again that is just nonsense. Apart from the very brief period in the 1960s when short skirts were the norm (and even then not for older women) it is simply not true that it has been impossible to buy non- revealing clothing.

I haven't read the whole thread but I have no problem with the word modest.
If others think it is too judgmental, then why not just say 'unrevealing' of 'conservative'.
It's not something I'd lose sleep over or want to overthink.

How modest fashion has gone from early days of women having to make their own clothes to being co-opted
www.nytimes.com/2019/10/15/style/what-does-modest-fashion-mean.html