Help me understand...”Modest Fashion”

30to50FeralHogs
I think that Muslim women do have to choice to wear hijab it's their choice and their intentions and if they don't wear it there are other ways of modesty not just how you dress.

CeridwenTheWitch Different points of view are welcome, but repeating the same straw man arguments and not engaging with the actual critical points made by posters is a headfuck. For example, I told her pages back modest clothing doesn't stop one getting raped, then she said 'I disagree, modest clothing doesn't stop one getting raped' ?!?! She then demanded I defend clubbing outfits as a feminist statement, for no apparent reason. I'm sorry, but I think we're being very patient.

Erm, what's with the policing of other women's feminism? We're not all going to agree on everything. I agree with some of what Plan has said, and agree with what Upfield and others have said too. What's wrong with looking at this from both sides, listening to other points of view? It doesn't seem very feminist to tell other women they shouldn't be on the feminist board. Plan hasn't said anything wrong, she's just sharing her views on this subject which I've found interesting to read.

Also, modest fashion has a lot of salwar kameez, tunic and trousers, and khaftan styles which were work wear for generations of peasants in these cultures. From cultures not exactly known for being hot on women's rights. Also, what BernardBlacksWineIceLolly said.

I think we can agree it’s not for the feminism.

I’m beginning to wonder why Plan is on this board too.

I object to the ideology behind 'modest' clothing. If the origin is sexist and you change the name, that doesn't stop the concept being sexist. Maybe 'rape apologist wear'?

Hear hear, Upfield.

May I suggest you look more at modest fashion as a whole and not make assumptions based on the label

People have repeatedly explained that their issue is with the label not the clothes

I’m not sure why you haven’t grasped that PlanDeRaccordement

What on earth are you talking about, Plan?? The French for modest is modeste, which has absolutely zero connection with modiste, a completely different word.

You don’t seem to have much connection with feminism, either, which makes me wonder what you’re doing on this board in the first place.

Ah, modest fashion does have a lot to do with practical. Long skirts are more practical in hot climates than short skirts or shorts. Why do you think Arab men and women wear long robes? The long skirt or robe creates an air buffer of cooler air between you and the heat. It also slows down sweating and dehydration.
Also, modest fashion has a lot of salwar kameez, tunic and trousers, and khaftan styles which were work wear for generations of peasants in these cultures.
Modest fashion was too about filling gaps in professional office wear for women that did not revolve around tight fitting blouses, short skirts and high heels. Their solutions are more practical as well as being elegant.
Modest fashion too has created lines of sports wear from ballerina outfits to swimming to running wear that both support, cover and are practical. Again many women are adopting these because of sun damage and skin cancer, not because flesh is sinful.
May I suggest you look more at modest fashion as a whole and not make assumptions based on the label?

I was thinking “modiste” would be good. It sounds like modest

Why is any reference to ‘modest’ a good thing?

I second ‘clothes’.

No value judgement, works for me

@Florabritannica - love it!!

@TalkingintheDark, @UpfieldHatesWomen, you are my comrades in this fight ladies. I am so fed up if women being shamed for what they wear, as if we have to be responsible for men's sexual urges and violence towards women.

My DD was telling me that he friend attended a rape trial yesterday and she was shocked that the defence barrister shouted angrily at the rape victim on the stand and accused her of lying. Again, women are blamed for men's violence to women and other women stand by and cheer them on.

Sorry for the rant, but oh God, I am heartily sick of men right now. And women apologising for them. And modest dressing - for >>>> sake.

For me modest sounds like the French word modiste which gives connotation of modern, fashionable, bespoke clothing. So it is no problem in France to have a fashion trend called “modest”.
That is utterly bizarre. No problem because the English word “modest” sounds a bit like a French word meaning something completely different.,....?

I was thinking “modiste” would be good. It sounds like modest but it has completely different meaning for clothing and fashion. It means modern, as in a la mode, it means made just for you as a modiste is the name for a personal dressmaker that rich women would use to make one of a kind outfits, it means fashionable because the modiste would invent new styles.

But, of course, the world uses English more than French. So do not expect my label to be welcomed at all. ;)

It is not saying flesh is sinful. That's exactly what it's saying, that's why some Muslim men don't shake hands with women outside of the family, it's about keeping women the property of the family and thus unnecessarily sexualizing any other interaction between men and women.
The modest fashion trend is about supporting women doing non sexual activities but doing so in lovely feminine and practical clothing.
'Modest' fashion is about modesty and nothing to do with practicality. Floor length skirts are not practical. Headscarves are not practical. A lot of modest fashion in sweltering weather is certainly not practical. As I said way back, many of the items in the BBC article are not particularly practical or comfortable. Also, you're on a feminist page, I'm not against feminine clothing, but I certainly don't see it as a virtue.

Interesting answers. Thank you for thinking about what should we call this trend since modest deeply insults many of you.

Nothing more fetishistic that covering every inch of skin because flesh is 'sinful', rather than treating the female body as a vehicle for carrying out the whole range of non-sexual activities that her daily life involves.

But that is not why the modest fashion trend is popular globally. It is not saying flesh is sinful. That is old fashioned British Victorian thinking. The modest fashion trend is about supporting women doing non sexual activities but doing so in lovely feminine and practical clothing. What else do you call salwar and kameez or khaftan or chinese tunic and trousers type dress?

Maybe, I dunno, just call them 'clothes' - like women's long sleeved tops and trousers and long line skirts have always been called.

I object to the ideology behind 'modest' clothing. If the origin is sexist and you change the name, that doesn't stop the concept being sexist. Maybe 'rape apologist wear'?

UPfield, I am asking everyone,, including you, who object to the label of modest, what should we call this style of clothes?

Or do you object to the clothes themselves and if so why?

How about calling it ‘fetishwear’?
Spot on! Nothing more fetishistic that covering every inch of skin because flesh is 'sinful', rather than treating the female body as a vehicle for carrying out the whole range of non-sexual activities that her daily life involves.

Flora. 😂
But seriously, the label fetishwear is already taken.

So it is no problem in France to have a fashion trend called “modest”.
Feminists exist in France too, I'm sure you'll find opposition to the term there as well.
So what would be a better label? I think 'modest' describes what we're dealing with perfectly. It's come from sexist, Islamic social control of women. You can call it whatever new terms you like, the underlying history and intention to make women responsible for male sexual violence remains the same.

How about calling it ‘fetishwear’?

So what would be a better label? I am happy for the label to be changed it does not bother me what it is called.

For me modest sounds like the French word modiste which gives connotation of modern, fashionable, bespoke clothing. So it is no problem in France to have a fashion trend called “modest”.

Whatever name you think of, think also of cultural differences because it was originally made for rich Middle Eastern women living in US and mainland Europe. They are not going to like names like “Islamic” or anything that others those who wish to dress in that style.