Help me understand...”Modest Fashion”

Are you worried western women will “go native”? That is a very colonial attitude to have and not very feminist.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'go native', but I can tell you that I care about the normalisation of the term 'modest' and the rape apologism inherent in it. Women are not responsible for male sexual violence.

Upfield, no I don’t think there is a binary and my comments illustrating a binary were purely in an effort to understand you who think and have said over and over you believe that not only is there is a binary but also that modest=antifeminist but immodest=feminist. I was trying to get more information on your views by reflecting back to you what you had said.
My view is that calling clothes modest does not create a binary.

After all, feminism 101 states that feminism is about women choosing

No it doesn't, that's faux feminism 101.

Feminism 101 says that women's choices are limited or non-existent because men oppress us systematically through patriarchy, using violence and illegitimate control of resources.

Sl*twalks are definitely anti-woman.

Why can't women imagine themselves out of men's disgusting boxes for us? Why don't they ever notice that men don't have to put up with this kind of nonsense. It literally doesn't exist for them.

Women are human, not modest or sl*ts.

“Feminism 101” is a meaningless response. After all, feminism 101 states that feminism is about women choosing and yet you call myself and others misogynist oppressors because we have no objection to some women choosing to dress in clothing currently labelled as “modest”. The clothing in question is actually a fusion of nonWestern and Western styles, cuts and embellishments. I understand the label of “modest” is offensive to some...fine,,that is gone, fini. But it seems you and others still object to women dressing in the style itself. Are you worried western women will “go native”? That is a very colonial attitude to have and not very feminist.

What's been incredibly disingenuous is the claim that 'modest' fashion doesn't imply that other fashion is 'immodest', yet the prolific advocate of 'modest' fashion we have on this thread has automatically set up this binary for themselves on a number of occasions. First of all they equated revealing 'clubbing wear' (which people wear to go on the pull, get wasted, take drugs etc ) to the opposite of modest fashion, then they said this: I don’t think it is wise to claim that dressing modest is antifeminist any more than to claim that slut walk outfits are antifeminist. So they clearly do see the opposite of 'modest' clothing as slutty clothing.

? I was shortening your name Cr—p so that you would not get a notification which is what I have been told repeatedly is the polite thing to do. After you you are calling me Plan. If you do not like the word, then why did you call yourself that?

A lot of clothes now seem to be modest. I have never been a flesh barer but I have large breasts and all the high necks make me look like I have a mammoth chest.

I have thought for a while that shops like M & S have decided that there is a huge market for modest clothing for demographics that culturally dress that way and have decided to concentrate their efforts in that style. And therefore we should all dress like that.

Shops need to offer choice. I need to show my shoulder blades because I look odd with high necks, so lots of clothes are no longer suitable for me.

I don't like the term modesty clothes. I actually find it offensive. Because I don't want to wear an all encompassing maxi dress with long sleeves and high necks does not make me a strumpet.

Feminism 101, PlanDeRaccordement, an please do not call me a creep.
It is rude and offensive and a violation of the special FWR talk guidelines.

Creepster Agreed. The appeals to our female socialisation on this thread to enforce tolerance of female oppression isn't pleasant.

Creep- What misogynist pro oppression side? You are joking I hope.

I had another thought. Maybe “fusion” style? As it is a global fusion of many civilisations and time periods in terms of cut, embellishment and style.

What's wrong with looking at this from both sides,
Seriously? You think the misogynist pro oppression of women side and the Feminist opposition to oppressing women deserve equal time on the Feminist board? Criminy!

You are right, sensible or practical do not conjure up the right kind of thing at all.

The whole point of the word modest is that it is a moral judgement.

It is like asking for words like good or virtuous or successful or better to be used without involving a sense of judgement.

while I agree modest has some bad connotations
sensible or practical clothing one of the other suggestions is not great either as it suggests granny style, frumpy unfashionable looks awful but functions the sort of outfit for gardening or walking a dog or a work uniform but certainly not fashionable trendy

someone might look for a modest dress to wear to a wedding but you would not expect anything suitable for a wedding to come up in a search for "sensible clothing for women"
what word(s) would you actually use to describe clothing that is fashionable but covers most of your body and is not skin tight and doesn't have a different set of negative things associated with it?

Yes Bertrand, but if the label “modest” is removed or reclaimed, then it is no longer antifeminist any more. And there is nothing wrong with a style being desirable to women. That is feminist. It’s dressing according to men’s desires that is antifeminist and that can be said of all or any item of clothing regardless of its fashion label.

What's wrong with looking at this from both sides, listening to other points of view? It doesn't seem very feminist to tell other women they shouldn't be on the feminist board. Plan hasn't said anything wrong, she's just sharing her views on this subject which I've found interesting to read.

Thank you Ceridwen. It was very nice of you to comment so. I have found your comments pleasant to read also. I like diversity in viewpoints.

I know what you are trying to say @TheNavigator but its a language problem isn't it because modest/immodest are so loaded with negative connotations, judgement. What is a better dichotomy?
Body conscious/Body concealing
Clingy/Covering
Show skin/Hide skin

?????? The other alternative is to reclaim words like slutty or modest and use them without pejorative meaning. There's Thicc now. Shall we also have Pslutt/PSchy.

It’s not the clothes that are anti feminist. It’s the concept of “modest dress” as a desirable category of
clothing for women that is anti feminist.

Emperor, I agree. I don’t think it is wise to claim that dressing modest is antifeminist any more than to claim that slut walk outfits are antifeminist.
Feminism is the right for all women to choose to wear as much or as little clothing as they want to. There should be no limit....no too little or too much.

I find the term 'modest fashion' as offensive as I would find New Look labelling its more revealing dresses 'tarty fashion' or 'slaggy fashion'. It sexualises women's clothes and by association their bodies in a sexist and judgemental way.

Just call them 'clothes' and trust women to choose the styles they want without a great big judgemental arrow pointing them to certain styles.

I don’t agree with the whole concept of sex positivity, but sex positive people are not claiming to be immodest. That would be completely contradictory.

Why do so many interesting threads in this section get derailed by ridiculous spats between idiotic posters? So frustrating.

nothing remotely feminist in someone waxing lyrical about wearing lovely feminine clothes that meet with the approval of men who wish to control women’s sexuality.

This applies to hyper-sexualised clothing as well. They meet the approval of men as being sexy clothes.