Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat

I've emailed management and not had a response. What else do we do?

@Jeanhatchet I think you are doing a brilliant job. I was in meadowhell at the weekend and had a nice chat with a customer about it who has joined the boycott.

What else is there to do.

Emails tweets comments etc are ignored

Newspapers are more concerned with misgendering

No ones prepared to debate on the radio they refuse to come on and speak to a woman with a different opinion

Shop staff are the literally the only way in now.

@Elodie2019

If management ignore you ... then what?

Have you spoken to management?

Was I wrong to go and inspect policy at its point of administration? I did it with utter politeness and what I'm trying to say to you about your assertion that I was wrong to visit stores is ... that shop floor staff and their views DO matter and the effect is not always "trickle down" unless you believe workers are utterly without a voice against their employers?

I agree, Jean is doing nothing wrong by talking to the sales staff on the shop floor. I mean, speaking to a woman asking questions is hardly traumatic, is it? And if management aren't telling their staff about this policy then at least these few staff have had a heads up.

Compared to a load of verbal abuse from an "It's Ma'am!" style TRA, or worse, a J. Yaniv type perve giggling away, asking for a bra fitting and taking selfies which just happen to have teen girls in the background, I'd say a few questions from a feminist is pretty good really.

Jean
I don't know where you get the idea that I think Sheffield doesn't matter?! I'm talking about Sheffield purely on the back of the article featuring you visiting the store.I don't follow you in Twitter.

Read the posts I have written below and you'll also see that I am in favour speaking to management.

By all means speak directly to the store manager who has the power to feed back to HO but not sales staff. It's bad form. Having worked in retail I know that it's not a democracy- shop floor staff have to just do as they are told sadly.

That's the standard scripted response @NellieEllie. I replied asking what about my comfort and how are they preventing abuse but no answer yet.

@Elodie2019
I do tend to do my own thing. I have taken a number of approaches. Is it Sheffield you don't think matters specifically? Or that posting the views of retail staff about policy they have to enforce doesn't matter? Or that also speaking to management doesn't count?

Substitution tip needed. I want to buy biscuits for the large GP practice that cared for my late mother. I want to do this before Christmas gifts start arriving. Happy to spend £30-50. In the past I have nipped into the M&S food round the corner. Any ideas of good selections available by mail order.

Ew, have just looked at the reviews of some ladies pants, a male saying he loves these panties.......have reported as inappropriate but this shit is all over their site.

Ew - the stuff from the end of the last thread is sickening. So someone at M&S must know about the male fetishists targeting their underwear departments with all those creepy male reviews on their website. There has to be a fetish site somewhere that has flagged this up for all their pals to go and like every male review. I am not brave enough to try and find out by Googling that though. Not envy.

Someone questioned whether one of the models wearing knickers on the website was a man - while I think the models are still women for now they have definitely moved to using more masculine/less curvy models to show off their 'panties'. That surely isn't a coincidence.

Then as they have changed their changing room policy while knowing all this they must be aware that they are inviting these men who like to show off about wearing M&S's women's underwear into the women's changing rooms. What the hell do they think is going to happen next?

Those poor staff.

Marks & Suspenders do the AutoG range, no?

Equally, I don't think they should be tackled on this issue by customers on the shop floor. Sales staff really are in the firing line

I agree, but asking them questions to check their, and our understanding of the changing room access is not putting them in a firing line. If staff haven’t been made aware of their responsibility by management it’s probably a good thing that customers put them in the picture.

I don’t think lone female staff in changing rooms at M&S, with no training or even basic information, should be the front line for tackling inappropriate male fetish behaviour in stores. Which is what M&S now say is their store policy. Staff should be questioned about this and encourages to do so themselves.

I agree that sales staff shouldn't have to deal with this. They should never have been put in the situation by their managers or HO.
Equally, I don't think they should be tackled on this issue by customers on the shop floor. Sales staff really are in the firing line.
By all means speak directly to the store manager who has the power to feed back to HO but not sales staff. It's bad form. Having worked in retail I know that it's not a democracy- shop floor staff have to just do as they are told sadly.

I got this rubbish response from M&S Executive Office.

“ Thank you for taking the time to contact us.
As a business, we strive to be inclusive and therefore, we allow customers the choice of which fitting room they feel comfortable to use, in respect of how they identify themselves. This is an approach other retailers and leisure facilities have also adopted.
We understand your concerns and I want to make it clear that if any customer was to act inappropriately or cause intentional offence, the necessary action would be taken.
Thank you again for your email.”

I’ve written back but I’m not buying anything from them at the moment.
If anyone can recommend a source for good reasonably priced bras and knickers (big knickers) and kids underwear, Id be grateful! Always get their long length men’s lamb wool pullovers for dog walking too. Not to mention veggie snacks at xmas!

Associated frillies and ownsome.

Indeed @HumberHellraiser

The staff who work in changing rooms are the most vulnerable in my opinion. They often are there alone and have no choice about having Mark and his suspenders and other associates frillier on their own some.

We can at least choose not to use a fitting room.

It is bad enough that M&S are making females vulnerable. It is shameful to leave their staff to deal with it whether they agree to it or not.

I wonder what they would think of one of their staff being assaulted?

Shameful. Just shameful.

So their official policy is to put staff in the line of fire and have them approach and challenge randy fetishists? Well, I hope the first employee put in that position takes them to court.

Elodie I don’t think staff are being made to feel as though they should do anything about it. Quite the opposite. Many staff don’t understand the policy either or are not aware they are being put in this position. They will hopefully raise it with management and ask questions themselves.

I don’t think lone female staff in changing rooms at M&S, with no training or even basic information, should be the front line for tackling inappropriate male fetish behaviour in stores. Which is what M&S now say is their store policy. Staff should be questioned about this and encourages to do so themselves.

They should just rename the shop Mark's Suspenders and be done with it...

Good grief - the last few pages of the previous thread

Didn't see thread 3 until too late.
Re-post from thread 2

Glad JP is talking to the people at the top. You know, the ones making the decisions and policies.
Shooting the messenger (sales staff in M&S Sheffield who have no say re. HO policy ) is bad form.
The quest for publicity worked but what can sales staff do about the situation in reality, day to day?

Glenthebattleostrich Safe retailers for women is an excellent idea-although they’ll then be targeted :-/

Jean Hatchet did a visit in Sheffield this week with a friend. Interesting results on Twitter with staff trying to explain how they could tell the difference between women and men.

KFC have had a sniff of the kool aide and rejected it.

Signing in. I've already managed to M&S-peak two people this week. They had no idea. And I had no idea about the latest findings in Part 3 till now but I look forward to updating them.