Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat

Sarah
Oh noooo. I am not even going to attempt to type that other c word anymore. Right now mine recognises cos.... on my iPad and dds. Yeh!!

Sexnotgender
Well that’s categorical proof then. They’ve been doing the open gusset thing for maybe 13/14 years to my knowledge. Ergo this changing room change has been part of a phased policy on male bodied people wearing women’s clothing.

No mention of lingerie in the returns exclusion list

www.marksandspencer.com/c/help/returns-and-refunds/is-there-anything-that-cant-be-returned#cantreturn

although swimwear is there, funnily enough.

I think I'm in for a very awkward conversation with my stepmother and my auntie when I try to explain why I don't think they should buy knickers that aren't multipack there any more unless they buy them online.

Indeed prodigalkittens. I’m away to bleach my brain if anyone needs me...

Well, I guess that answers the question about why they've been leaving gussets unstitched.

Do they take returns for lingerie? I thought they didn't.

This is interesting🤢

Or for knickers "Had to order online because it was the only way to be sure that the items hadn't been tried on and potentially masturbated into" with links to reviews from men.

When you make returns for online orders does it allow you to state the reason for return? Cause if so that's where I would put "I would have just tried these on instore but unfortunately you don't seem to be able to offer me a single sex changing room in which to do so".

So perhaps by encouraging male customers to try on in store by using the fitting room where they 'feel comfortable', that could be seen as a way to alleviate the returns headache

That's a good point, TimeLady. The cost of dealing with online returns must be significant.

Profits first, last and in-between, even though it means throwing girls and women under the bus.

I think M&S needs to update its Code of Ethics.

mummy

Every time I write cos it corrects it to cis 🙄

The reviews really dont need to he so detailed do they. It fits well, its good/poor quality. Delivery was quick/slow

We dont need to know about how much room there is at the front 🤮

My M&S store only lets males dressed as women in to the lingerie fitting room. Males dressed as men are turned away. Males dressed as men are presumably allowed in the other womenswear fitting room though, as I was told I would not be stopped from using the menswear one.

Maybe M&S is having a problem with shedloads of men ordering lingerie on line, trying it on for the thrill/selfie and sending it back? I can see that could become quite a hobby for those that way inclined. So perhaps by encouraging male customers to try on in store by using the fitting room where they 'feel comfortable', that could be seen as a way to alleviate the returns headache.

Unless they've done an official reverse ferret the Wanking Men don't need to say they identify as women, at least not at M&S, they just need to say they feel more comfortable in the women's changing room. John Lewis, Next etc seem to expect them to say they identify as women before allowing them in, it's M&S (and Topshop) who've officially flung the gates wide open and laid down a trail of rose petals.

So when they review the items, they say that they are men, but if they want to try on in store they say that they are women.

Or are there also reviews by transwomen who can try on in store, and review with their female name stating their gender as female?

The gussets thing is just horrifying.

The male customer reviewing the bra designed for tweens made me want to vomit. I guess M&S have made a considered decision that that's the market segment that they're most interested in serving. Has anyone put that to them on Twitter yet? I really think that these reviews need to be shared with a wider audience than just the women here. In fact I think the Daily Mail, The Sun etc should be pulled in ASAP. I'm tired of playing nice.

I wonder if the M&S take on it is that men are perfectly entitled to buy underwear designed for women and so are just as entitled to leave reviews? And who knows, perhaps some of their underwear is already specifically designed with AGP males in mind? Given that each review has to be an account holder, M&S must know the size of that market, as they can pick out 'bras bought by males' from the database - we know they ask for sex/gender. Perhaps the on-line sales figures are indeed substantial enough to warrant the new fitting room rules and they believe these will increase by facilitating over-the-counter sales too?

TBH, I have far less of an issue with this than the problems of males physically encroaching female-only spaces. If anything, it just raises awareness amongst women reading those reviews to be mindful that creepy men may be loitering in lingerie departments in general.

And to inspect those gussets before purchase.

@Akire maybe I did get someone off-guard.

However, maybe this is an issue that M and S can’t deny. They can put their heads in the sand and deny women’s concerns on the other matter. They can say we are imagining it if we complain about the man grunting and groaning in the next cubicle. They can say we are exaggerating the risk of sexual assault. Our concerns about the intent of men using women’s change rooms are transphobic and they just want to try on clothes and stuff their man-boobs into bras- just like us girls.

But what they can’t deny is that men are a lot taller than women and a large proportion of men, with no effort, will be able to view the woman in the cubicles next to them.

Sarah
Oh gosh, I know! I’m using my dds ipad a lot of the time. That should be...interesting for her one day. 😱

mummy

That's ok. Too much time on FWR board leads to Interesting typos ....

Stupid autocorrect

@Justabaker That Medium article is great, thank you.

Off out in a bit to shop in other places than M&S.

NoCurrent
Omg. That is angel bra one is awful. How can someone pass that review and not wonder about the motives eg paedophilia / hebephilia?

SarahT
Had to read that a couple of times because you said petitions. I think you mean partitions. Sorry not trying to be the grammar police. I was just confused.

Idk what they are like these days. I do remember maybe 25 years ago when dh bought a suit in M&S and I quickly nipped in the Men’s changing room - at the time 4 cubicles with no one else in there to hand him a garment. Curtains closed, arm through type thing. And yes, they were floor to ceiling then.

TheKrakening
Thanks for this response. i can’t remember what the local M&S changing rooms are like now they’ve been refitted. Only been in once.

What do we think about multiple lingerie orders by post, all of which is returned? Hit them financially with the p&p (it’s free if you collect in store), returns and stock confusion on the basis that trying on in store is no longer viable

This is from the my angel my first bra range.... I can’t believe what I’m reading. He purchased in store, wonder if he tried it on first in store too...

I can’t believe how many there are, Sorry, I’ll stop posting them now.