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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat

812 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 12/11/2019 00:47

Fresh thread in case part 2 fills up overnight.
I am yet to receive a reply to my third email, have been furiously tweeting, and as am now pursuing the options available to me as a shareholder.
Still crossing fingers for John Lewis!

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27
YourOpinionIsNoted · 14/11/2019 23:14

Thanks all for the extra help on the Pervy Pigs thread ladies! I'm glad I spotted it, it has provided me with some excellent entertainment tonight. Honourary mentions to pigs in wankets, pulled pork in the changing rooms, and, of course, SirVix's illustrated smug Pervy.

TheChampagneGalop · 14/11/2019 23:14

Do they not understand that cross dressing is a sexual fetish that relies on the subordination of women?
That's exactly what many people are not getting, I think. Only those who have had direct exposure to a misogynist man with such a fetish will understand. Others might just think it's all harmless men exploring their feminine side and their true self and so on. Or they do get it and want to hide the real mentality of those men.

theflushedzebra · 14/11/2019 23:06

The won't get away with the Percy Pig type threads now Grin

We don't want pulled pork in the women's changing rooms in the lingerie dept....

Datun · 14/11/2019 23:02

Do they not understand that cross dressing is a sexual fetish that relies on the subordination of women?

Do they think it's just fucking fun and games?

Absolute, solid gold idiots.

NumbersStation · 14/11/2019 23:00

I wonder... if after feeling you have been born in the wrong body and going through multiple surgeries to be in the correct body, how you would feel about a bloke being in the same changing room you occupy. Would you feel safe or no?

If they aren’t going to take the feelings of women into consideration, then how can they be going out on a limb to reassure those who have transitioned?

It is puzzling me.

Justabaker · 14/11/2019 22:58

Oh some A-M-A-Z-I-N-G work over on the Percy Pig thread, ladies. Awesome.

Pigs in wankets deserves a special prize Glitterball

The thread has a creepy undertone from the beginning - well spotted.

HumberHellraiser · 14/11/2019 22:50

Bloody hell, so they will travel 00’s of miles, on multiple visits, promote the mission on their website, change their entire store policy and dismiss written letters of concern from hundreds of their core customer base, purely on the basis of a handful of individuals?

That’s an awfully big gesture of support to a particularly small group of people.

Dreichdrizzle · 14/11/2019 22:41

I bet the wives of the Unique network's members are M&S shoppers. It would be interesting to hear about how they feel about this piece of corporate reachout.

Akire · 14/11/2019 22:34

We discreetly went around the group explaining that we were there to help, that M&S is a friendly place which welcomes customers whoever they are, and that they shouldn’t be frightened to come into our stores. I guessed correctly that there was a stigma coming into a store like M&S, so I suppose it was a mission of reassurance.

Will they now be going around women’s groups to reassure women who are also to frightened to use their changing rooms that they are safe? Of course not. No photo opportunity there just bunch of silly women. Meanwhile over in the stunning and brave category.

Dreichdrizzle · 14/11/2019 22:30

Sorry for the multiple posts, but here's a list of the organisations who Unique have provided diversity training for:

Active Leisure, Trafford
Age Concern, Liverpool
Agenda Conferences, Liverpool
Aintree Hospital
AVOW, Wrexham
Betys Cadwalader University Health Board (North Wales)
British Transport Police, Birmingham
Cardiff Airport
Celebrate don't discriminate Festival Winsford (Cheshire Police/Vale Royal Council)
Cheshire Domestic Abuse Partnership
Cheshire Police & Cheshire Police Commissioner (Winsford, Crewe & Macclesfield)
Chester University
Chester & Cheshire West Council, Chester
Countess of Chester General Hospital
Crewe & Nantwich Council (Now part of Cheshire East Council), Crewe
Crewe & Nantwich Leisure Services, Nantwich
Edge Hill University
Encompass LGBT, Connahs Quay, North Wales
Flintshire Council, Mold
Glyndwyr University (Wrexham)
Homotopia LGBT Arts project, Liverpool
In-Trust Transgender group, North Liverpool
John Moores University, Liverpool
Lesbian & Gay Christian Movement London
LGBT National Health Conference (Cardiff)
Liverpool University
North West Ambulance Service, Liverpool
North Wales Police (Wrexham, Rhyl, Llandudno, Colwyn Bay, and Conwy)

North Wales Police Authority, St Asaph
North Wales Probation Service (NOMS), Colwyn Bay
North Wales Regional Equality Network, Paenmanmawr
Older People’s Commissioner for Wales
Pembrokshire Council Wales Havorfordwest
Real eQuality Training, Chester & Llandudno
Rhyl College
Richmond Fellowship Winsford & Liverpool
Salford Leisure Centre
Salix Homes, Manchester
Sparkle Transgender Festival
Spectrum – The Home office LGBT organisation, Liverpool
Stonham Charity, Liverpool
Swansea Psychiatrists Professional Circle.
Tai Pawb Housing, Cardiff
Vale Royal Council (Now Chester & Cheshire West Council), Northwich & Winsford
Victim Support, North & Mid Wales
Viva LGBT Young people’s group, Rhyl
Welsh Government, Dept. of Health & Social Services Cardiff
Welsh Health – NILAH ( Dept. of Equality and Human Rights), Llanharren
Welsh Public Health –Screening Services, Cardiff and Pontypool
West Wales CAMHS Mental Health Service, Carmarthen
Wrexham Council LGBT Day and Transphobic Bullying Conference, Wrexham
Yale College, Wrexham

I wonder if these organisations would like some training by radical feminists on male transvestism and cross-dressing and how they affect women. Only £500 a session.

Dreichdrizzle · 14/11/2019 22:22

Here's a page where Unique promote their diversity training and consultation, with a photo of a huge Powerpoint slide which states that cross-dressing and transvestites under M-F trans sexuality.

www.uniquetg.org.uk/outreach2.html

Did M&S check these people out before they did a mass bra fitting and fashion show for them and then boasted about it on their website as a reason to work at M&S?

Dreichdrizzle · 14/11/2019 22:17

I have never heard of M&S sales assistants called "M&S girls" given that most of them are middle aged women.

Unique's website say they specifically support Trans* people including cross-dressers:

"Trans* people, from just-left-the-closet cross-dressers to transsexuals following Gender Reassignment Surgery (including all those who do not identify with the gender binary), often need reassurance and support from others with similar experiences."

www.uniquetg.org.uk/

Dreichdrizzle · 14/11/2019 22:10

I found a couple of things on the M&S corporate website. Firstly a photo illustrating M&S diversity. A white man in a suit, Steven Rowe., surrounded almost completely by women and a few men from ethnic minorities, wearing the M&S uniform and name labels (Steve doesn't have to wear a badge) which shows that they are earning a lot closer to the minimum wage, rather than to Steve Rowe's stratospheric salary. How they think that a photo of a white man at the top and women and men from ethnic minorities at the very bottom illustrates diversity is beyond me:

careers.marksandspencer.com/why-work-here

Then this little cracker, where the M&S lingerie department drove a hundred miles to do bra fittings for a group of MTF trans.

How one colleague has helped make M&S more inclusive

careers.marksandspencer.com/inside-mands/how-one-colleague-has-helped-make-m%26s-more-inclusive

"Kelly is part of the M&S team in Prestatyn, North Wales. Last year, she heard about ‘Unique’. This is a voluntary group that supports transgender people in North Wales and West Cheshire, from those who have changed their gender presentation to individuals who have had gender affirming surgery. Kelly learned that Unique’s aim is to help transgender people accept themselves and find acceptance from others – and was driven to be an ally to the group.

Along with an M&S bra fitter, Kelly went to one of Unique’s monthly meetings, not really knowing how their presence would be received. Here’s how it went:

“We discreetly went around the group explaining that we were there to help, that M&S is a friendly place which welcomes customers whoever they are, and that they shouldn’t be frightened to come into our stores. I guessed correctly that there was a stigma coming into a store like M&S, so I suppose it was a mission of reassurance.”

To Kelly’s delight, the evening was a huge success, so she arranged another visit. “This time, some of the group modelled for me. They loved it and I was made to feel so welcome. After the meeting, many came for a bra fitting and one of the group specially brought their partner along for a new bra. I had to reserve quite a lot of our products – not that I went there with the intention of boosting M&S sales!”

That wasn’t the end of it. Kelly has built firm friendships with members of the group, two in particular. “One worked in our Prestatyn store over Christmas, and when I was told “to be an M&S girl is a dream come true”, it really brought a lump to my throat,” Kelly says."

littlecabbage · 14/11/2019 22:07

Haha Numbers - that is brilliant!

NumbersStation · 14/11/2019 22:06
Envy

Not envy either

NumbersStation · 14/11/2019 22:05

As mentioned on the other thread

The lady pants in markies probably have some kind of pig gelatine in them....

WrathofSlxFootSlxEIf · 14/11/2019 22:05

This feels like Ratners on speed.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 14/11/2019 21:57

Percy Pigs have actual pig in them Envy not envy.

SirVixofVixHall · 14/11/2019 21:48

Here

Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat
SirVixofVixHall · 14/11/2019 21:47

TheChampagneGallop
I don’t know, I will ask when we next speak. She said he just went in, and she was surprised, as it was in the women’s section.

For another gluten free hamper filler idea, I bought these from Amazon and they were v nice,

Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat
TheChampagneGalop · 14/11/2019 21:47

God it's pathetic if they would rather start Percy Pigs threads than address the changing room policy criticism properly.

PocketDictionary · 14/11/2019 21:45

Numbers Grin. Knew there were creative minds on here.

NumbersStation · 14/11/2019 21:44

Done. For I am a crabby old bastard who has sullied the Percys for all.

You are welcome Grin

Akire · 14/11/2019 21:42

numbers at this rate you will have written a Feminist book of Rhyme before to long Grin

YourOpinionIsNoted · 14/11/2019 21:41

Oh numbers, please please please put that on the Percy Pigs thread! I'm having fun over their buy I can't hold the fort alone! Grin