Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat

FFS John Lewis.

Now then, M&S, why do you feel it's necessary to mention the sex of those who leave reviews on items of lingerie?

John Lewis's website doesn't. And it's either not attracting the attention of male fetishists or it's being much more strictly moderated.

It’s really fecking annoying as JL is one of the few places that does clothes for girls who are tall for their age and want to dress still like kids rather than teenagers.

Emailed JL CEO saying that I wasn’t happy. Got this reply from the ‘Director relations case manager’. Basically, it doesn’t answer the question about where I should go if I feel uncomfortable. Tempted to write and say which female customers they consulted with, certainly not me and I spent £2k with them over the last 12 months.

“Thank you for contacting our Managing Director about your concerns about our policy on changing rooms.

When developing any shop policy, we always consult with relevant stakeholders across the business and, where appropriate, outside of our business.

When it comes to putting policy into practice, as a co-owned business we ensure that all of our Partners understand their responsibilities and exercise their judgement appropriately.

As an inclusive business, our customers are welcome to use whichever fitting room makes them feel the most comfortable.

Regardless of specific policy, if any customer were to act inappropriately, the necessary action would be taken.”

So exactly the same as M&S. If you’re sexually harassed because of our policy change, we’ll deal with it then, but we won’t protect you until then. And leaves the difficult decisions up to the staff on the shop floor.

John Lewis is worse than M&S. The cubicles in womenswear and lingerie in the relatively new Leeds store have curtains, not lockable doors, and a convenient stool for standing on so you can pop your camera over the top.

The same wording is rather creepy isn’t it ? Who is advising them ?

For FUCKs sake. Furious at this.
I spend a fortune in there.

And what the hell is this copy and paste reply we are all getting with the same wording for M&S and JL? Is it the same Inclusivity Consultant or something?

I reckon though that woke central comm’s have a very different message to the shop staff. Clearly not singing from the same hymn sheet and I bet I know which one sees the real life consequences.

This is not what JL Oxford Street told me when I rang them a few days ago. They said they had a strict policy, men in the men's changing room, women in the women's

If you can no longer define "woman" then you don't have a strict policy at all.

I am also high street homeless as well as politically homeless. I'd cancel DH's JLP vouchers he gets through work but he's just been made redundant due to Brexit so I don't even have to do that.

@JumpJockey That reply has just been slipped into her timeline and is going unnoticed. I've retweeted it but if anyone else can do so they probably should.

Argh. Learn to proofread.

'better woman than me'.

I used to buy all my knickers at Victoria's Secret (VS) when I was back in the USA. But I could never buy my bras there because I'm a 36D and they had little to no selection in that size. It was 'too curvy' for them. The message being that I was not a slender androgynous young thing who needed a padded or a push up Wonder Bra thing.

And I had to keep my ass in shape to fit it in those V&S knickers. It's an incentive of a sorts.

I thought, no problem - there is always Rigby & Peller or Bravissimo for bras.

Then I saw that VS has been under fire from investors and activists because their clothes are 'exclusionary' in that THEY DON'T MAKE ANYTHING THAT FITS MEN. And they only have tall skinny models. So what do they do?

They expanded the size range in their knickers and bras (okay sounds good). Then they hire their first not born female model (being careful with language in fear of the mods). And what they comically described as 'plus size'. Seriously, plus size? Have you seen the size of the average American woman? Plus size maybe for the greater Manhattan area plus LA. So now, they are actually making bras that would fit me and knickers that don't require twice a week on the spin bike to stay wearable.

And they announce - that they want to make their clothes .....MORE ACCESSIBLE.

Okay, so a couple of days after I read about this my DH saw a pile of knickers on the floor in front of my closet. He's like 'ooh a lingerie upgrade?'. I said 'keep dreaming buddy. You can boycott Gillette for telling men they are bad dads. I'm boycotting VS because they've found a not born female person who's a better woman than mean'.

www.elle.com/culture/celebrities/a28601304/victoria-secret-first-transgender-model-valentina-sampaio/

Get woke, go broke.

Just posting this for posterity in case Kareem gets into trouble and the whole tweet goes away.

SingingLily perhaps also mention you will be "spreading the word" locally so that it may have more impact.

The Green Consumer guide emphasied the power of the spending consumer. The festive period could really emphasise this? Let the papers know (as some already have) a massive impact on M&S shame I've always shopped there. Our spending choices as women will hit them hard, I for one will be spreading the word.

To John Lewis and any other retailers -
I am NOT COMFORTABLE IN A MIXED SEX SPACE WHEN UNDRESSING . So when you say that I can change where I feel “most comfortable “ , what does that mean for me ?
How is it “inclusive “ to exclude every woman or girl who, for any number of reasons, feels uncomfortable in a mixed sex fitting room ?

JL in on the act too? Patriarchy at its finest, men supporting men.
I’ll buy less and pay more supporting women who own boutiques then, or switch to online only. Sod them.

Pretty shit for the next generation though; as a teen I lived in TopShop etc, where’s the fun in shopping for girls if you can’t go into town and try on loads of clothes without being perved at?
This is indeed an attempt to put women with boundaries in their designated place and using those without boundaries for men’s titillation. Wankers.

Do you think that staff or rather partners are able to determine local policies.

Even back in the 80s I remember the lingerie department at M&S Marble Arch having lots of men browsing, which I found quite unsettling. In my naivety I noted that many were Arab so assumed they might be buying for their wives. I might draw different conclusions now. Shop floor staff presumably have more knowledge of their customer base. Perhaps in JL Oxford street they will have a policy that allows women to feel comfortable shopping there,. knowing full well that a significant number of women from overseas might walk out if men were using the changing rooms. Whereas staff in other areas are kinder/have not experienced many problems/have a different customer profile. Allowing staff in the store a reasonable degree of discretion seems better than imposing a policy on them. If that is what the JL statement means. In which case it would be a case of informing partners in specific shops of your concerns.

Be ashamed JL. Be very ashamed.

The only fucking safe place for women soon will be the kitchen.

Way to put us in our place...

Ive been lamenting massive chains folding and the death of the high street. Although some don’t seem to be helping themselves.

This is not what JL Oxford Street told me when I rang them a few days ago. They said they had a strict policy, men in the men's changing room, women in the women's, there was no 'in between'.

JL

Is nowhere safe?

No John Lewis nooooooooo.

Gosh how interesting, I was looking back to screen shot in case the JL account changed its mind, and it's now been worded differently: "As an inclusive business, our policy states that customers are welcome to use whichever fitting room with which they feel most comfortable. " and the rest of the discussion has been erased - it was previously across three messages, now just one.

Ok. So now M&S is forever associated for me with some grungy kind of sex shop, I suppose I can only wish them and their clients every happiness together. And JL too.

I was fed up and annoyed with the sexism. Now I'm utterly revolted. And increasingly worried that the whole situation now seems to be suggesting that men expressing fetish should be regarded as a normal and every day aspect of transgenderism, and women should just..... accept and co operate with this?

Like others on here, why am I not seeing men stuff themselves into a pretty bra and pants set seeing as how it fits their curves so well?

I’d offer to model too in the interests of equality but sadly they’ve more chance of packing their jewels inthe lingerie than I have my exceedingly ample arse and wallopers.

You claim to be all inclusive marks suspenders... c’mon then.

Money where your mouth is please.

I’m sure all your sleb endorsers will be bloody thrilled to see various Colin’s squeezing themselves in ‘their’ clothes and drawers.

That is shit and disappointing from John Lewis. And denies the feedback given before by John Lewis staff that there had been problems with the self ID in their store that had led to a change of policy. Completely leaves their staff open to abuse and hassle. The online only retailers will be the winners from this, Why should any woman bother going into a store changing room if they are subject to voyeurs, exhibitionists and predatory men. Online only stores are cheaper as dont have to pay for a network. Decision easy to make