Marks and Spencer have fallen, part III; we’re gonna need a bigger boat

It was the same for my DC. At a super woke uni. And guess what? Without anyone saying anything, within the first couple of days the mixed sex corridor treated them as single sex facilities. So the women used one lot and the men used the other.

Isn't that interesting in that we're constantly told that it's just because we're old farts that we aren't OK with mixed facilities?

Almost nobody is OK with mixed facilities. People don't like it. Why isn't "nobody likes this" a good enough reason?

Loitered outside an M&S shop with a now peak-M&Sed friend today and chatted loudly about why we were boycotting it. I have no idea if it had any impact there but it did in the Denby shop across the road. The woman behind the till was horrified - and so was the man behind me in the queue.

I'm distraught about John Lewis though. It's in today's Daily Mail (thank you, Jeanhatchet) and the article also highlights M&S.

It's a standard across that m and s. It's the only one I've been to so far though. And I've got 3 more to do this in.
It will take a few days. I went on my own. Shaking in case I was like arrested or something. Am at another on Thursday this week then the last two I dunno, honestly hoping it will be a weekend before Christmas and bloody busy. I will whistle while in the queue with me scanties.

Well done @Dangerfloof !!

Hopefully the actual man will complain (and will be listened to...)

Good work Danger are the men’s different to the ladies in height or is that standard in that store?

Brilliant email parsnips.

My own email with a list of specific questions, which now languishes on the original thread because it's so long since I sent it to them, alas goes unanswered. I have emailed twice more asking for a response. I have been forced in my latest chase-up to threaten the named individual on the email with raising a complaint against them on the grounds of substandard customer service if they don't reply by the end of this week.

Oh, and I've peak-M&S-ed my mum who would normally buy my and my DH's birthday and Christmas presents from there, and she's telling both my aunt and my godmother (who would both ditto) not to buy from them either. So that's five members of one family alone who are all boycotting them. Good work M&S, well done.

I needed a new winter hat today, normally M&S would be my go-to - not least because they're right next to the bus stop where I get off for work. Instead I'm very happy with my lovely new woolly hat from Accessorise.

Excellent work Danger

Needed a few groceries today. Drove past M&S, drove past Waitrose and went to my locally owned garden centre where they have a butcher, baker and general food hall. Boycotting Waitrose is going to be difficult but I am persuaded it must be done.

Our fresh food normally comes from Abel & Cole, a local butcher and a local fishmonger. I bake all our bread etc. Plus I grow vegetables.

I'm wondering if the lawn is large enough for a sheep.

All the loo blocks in his halls are mixed sex/'gender neutral'.

It was the same for my DC. At a super woke uni. And guess what? Without anyone saying anything, within the first couple of days the mixed sex corridor treated them as single sex facilities. So the women used one lot and the men used the other.

Just dropping by to say that I have learnt so much from Feminism chat and have started the process to remove my 10k savings from an M&S bank account.

Well. I've been and done my bit in Mark's suspenders.
Jeez the mens change is hard to find. I wandered around for actual minutes. So I just walked in with three bras and a silk slip. The female attendant said
Scuse me this is the mens. I said I think you will find they are mixed sex.
She urmmed and said oh ok then.
I went in a cubicle >>>see pics
Took pics, read paper and as an actual real man came in, I walked out with the scanties. Look on his face, priceless.
Pics show largeish gaps at top of cubicle and right under the door.

Mentioned in passing this weekend to an older family member that M&S women’s changing rooms were now open to everyone. She was almost apoplectic with rage. Reads the Times and the Fail. Somehow this valuable information had slipped under her radar. I think she’ll be ordering online from now on.

Thanks everyone. I did also write a really nice email to Bravissimo as well, because the fitter who served DD was lovely. I'm so pleased they are an oasis of sanity in all of this sea of idiot.

I was framing it around our DD but he fixated on how uncomfortable he would be with a trans man in his changing rooms

Hmm, I was talking to DS (first-year at a v woke uni) this weekend. All the loo blocks in his halls are mixed sex/'gender neutral'. Having previously scoffed when I said that DD and I didn't like using mixed loos, he sheepishly admitted that he felt direly embarrassed using them.

I said, 'Yes, really embarrassing, aren't they? Now imagine that PLUS being actually wary of sexual assault or filming, as that's more common in mixed facilities, and...?'

'Yep,' he said. He didn't call me oldfashioned, or XXphobic, or bigoted, or anything (and trust me, we've been there and done that). He just agreed.

We're getting there.

(He did say though that maybe the women students could at least 'make the men' wash their hands. I'll reserve the lecture on women not being everybody's mummy for another time.)

To all you woke stores out there.

I sincerely hope you have great insurance. If someone suffers the trauma of an assault in your stores, you will be taken to the cleaners. You can’t turn round and say you weren’t responsible for an individual’s actions because you gave them a safe environment to do it and therefore you enabled them.

We have told you we need safe places, you are carrying on with your wokenicity regardless. Therefore you are responsible.

Take the shame.

I am really angry about the shop staff overall. They are being put in impossible positions with regard to admitting people to changing rooms, What if they have a transwoman they are about to let in and women object. Their jobs may also be at risk if sales go down as they are likely to do so as so many are boycotting.

The woke types at Marks just make these decisions but dont have to live the consequences

Parsnips that is a lovely email- I felt quite emotional reading it.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I think men struggle to understand that pubertal changes are significantly more difficult for girls, and require a lot more care and support as they learn how to handle
a) their new shape bodies
b) the societal response to that body

Well done.

There is no way of stopping this until someone is assaulted, no way to get rid of the hidden cameras until the are put in, no way of assuaging the nerves of embarrassed teenagers until they have been humiliated. Please can you tell me why the needs and comfort of a small number of trans men are seen to outweigh the needs of women? It's perfectly possible for the store to satisfy both, but it's just that you don't want to.

That's exactly it, isn't it. M&S is saying that oh well, after you have been assaulted, we will deal with it (without even being specific about what this means). But that's not good enough. They are not doing anything to mitigate the risks - they are making it significnatly more likely.

But what about trans women not safe in men's fitting rooms, the TRAs will say? Well, how is inviting men to ALL fitting rooms making them safer? Are the women present supposed to act as police now?

All they are doing is pandering to people like the one mentioned above, who wants to wear a dress every second day.

artisanparsnips your email has made me feel quite emotional, as my elder dd had her first fitting in M&S at 13. There is absolutely no way she would have gone in if it had been mixed sex. The assistant was lovely, very kind and sensitive. She even took bras home to alter herself for dd as there was nothing with a back small enough. I was so grateful to this lovely woman, and the staff in general at my local branch are incredibly helpful and nice.
M&S are treating their customers with distain and their staff appallingly. The knowledge that they have prioritised the desire of some males to change in with with women, over young girls like your dd and mine, while putting shop floor staff in an impossible position, makes me furious.

Here's my email, I'm sharing it because this was actually my experience this weekend and so I wanted to prove that it's not just middle aged women getting arsey, it really does make a difference:

I know you've had many similar emails, but I wanted to add my voice.

I will be boycotting M&S from now on because of your changing room policy. This is actually a massive pain in the backside for me, because my nearest food shop is the M&S Simply Food, and we usually pop in at least once a day for newspapers and top up shopping. We are now using the Co-op and Lidl.

Why do I feel strongly about this? Well I took my thirteen year old daughter for a bra fitting yesterday. She's a 30F, and embarrassed about her figure. She scarcely wanted to go anyway, and would never have stayed for five minutes in a changing room with men next door. So instead I took her to Bravissimo, where she felt safe and secure, and she could take 45 minutes. We spent £120 in there, but it was worth every extra penny of expense for the experience.

I'm not a transphobe. What I am scared of are all the other men who are going to take advantage of the policy in order to get their thrills, which mostly come from undermining women. There is no way of stopping this until someone is assaulted, no way to get rid of the hidden cameras until the are put in, no way of assuaging the nerves of embarrassed teenagers until they have been humiliated. Please can you tell me why the needs and comfort of a small number of trans men are seen to outweigh the needs of women? It's perfectly possible for the store to satisfy both, but it's just that you don't want to.

So yesterday I went to M&S prepared to do my bit. I picked up a couple of jumpers and went to the mens changing room which had a long queue. I dithered at the back of the queue for five minutes while being eyed up nervously by the very young 'Saturday Girl' and then slunk off. Sorry folks i let the side down. I'll try to get my courage up to try again next week.

Ah true. Maybe some out of town stores are all on the same level. Mine is. Or would going to a different floor add an extra intricacy? Big beige bras only of course. Maybe even ask the assistant for advice on how to overcome breasts of different sizes...

Asking the assistant for a different size would be interesting, as the womenswear is often on a different floor

For extra effect you could drape your "wrong size" bras over the top of the cubicle. If there was one near me I'd do it and festoon the men's changing room with big pants and beige bras of the "designed by the same engineers who normally do bridges" type of construction.

(There are some men who'd be delighted to see the place covered in sexy lingerie so let's not give them that.)

Sadly I’m not well enough to do that. I’m just imagining going into the men’s with a bunch of underwear, declaring that you feel happiest trying them on in the men’s. Then maybe taking a strategically time phone call from your friend waiting outside. Talk about how the bra is a bit tight, looks nice on your boobs, need bigger / smaller knickers. Then ring the bell, ask for a different size from the assistant and another size in knickers.