The problem with white feminism

Ah x post, thanks for that. Will have a look

Quick google and I can find a news link stating this, but helpfully it doesn't link to the study 🙄

Black women are 5x more likely to die in childbirth

I read this recently too on this board but i can't for the life on me remember the source.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-47115305

I definitely read a study fairly recently on childbirth outcomes correlated with race, but it was American not British

Did you know in the UK, Black women are 5x more likely to die in childbirth?

Have you got a source for this? Preferably one which controls for socio economic factors.

nteresting how cries of 'white feminism' come from the country with the worst rates of maternal deaths in the developed world.

Did you know in the UK, Black women are 5x more likely to die in childbirth?
‘White feminism’ is not an attack on individual white women, I for one wouldn’t want any woman to not speak up because of the colour of her skin - ever.
It’s about recognising all women and experiences and how some levels of current feminism ignore it.
I don’t think the whole ‘anti-trans’ thing stems from racism, but the recent defending of Posie Parker working with a white supremacist is just one example of how sometimes modern feminists can disregard Black women in an instant.

FWIW I think filia is a great feminist organisation and year on year they make an effort to hold workshops supporting black women in feminism and more.

The Queen has enormous class advantages, but she still ended up with a man who broke into her bedroom in the middle of the night, and sat on her bed armed with a piece of glass

That is such a non-point. Almost any member of the Royal House with the exception of the security guards would have been at risk in that situation.

I've never been threatened, assaulted or harmed by a radical feminist.
I have been harmed by women who side with men.

Interesting how cries of 'white feminism' come from the country with the worst rates of maternal deaths in the developed world.

I've been assaulted on numerous occasions in public by men and boys. I can't imagine that my experiences are unique for women.

Where did I say that? Any talk of race on here just gets shut down anyway so I won’t bother discussing it

No, it doesn't! This is a discussion forum which will inevitable present a wide range of view points. Having some element of disagreement or difference of perspective is not to 'shut things down'. Personally, think this is a necessary discussion.

Early what did you think of BAME representation at FiLiA?

Goddess loves a trier!

@Reality

I think you're replying to the wrong person.

Iced but what’s the point of noting the supposed advantages possessed by those at the very margins of society who don’t even have a safe place to sleep versus the apparent disadvantage faced by a woman with unimaginable wealth? Really? I can’t see any point to it at all.

And the queen might be vulnerable to a stranger breaking in with a piece of glass but change the glass to a gun and the sex of the victim would be immaterial. Everyone is mortal and capable of being injured.

I cringe whenever I see or hear the term 'White Feminism.' Firstly, it's racist because it implies white feminists are Bad and Wrong simply because they are white. Imagine if people started saying 'the problem with Black Feminism' and how unacceptable that would be.

Secondly, it mocks, dismisses and belittles the incredible achievements made by the Suffragettes and feminists of the past, just because they were white.

I've noticed trans activists love to use the term 'white feminism' to dismiss usually older white women who are fighting for our rights. It's yet another term of abuse and a way for them to attempt to belittle and discredit us.

I know men who have been attacked in bars and pubs or just walking down the street.

I'm sure we all know people - men and women - who have been attacked in public. But how common do you really think it is for men to just be randomly attacked by strangers walking down the street?

I absolutely don’t think we can say that male victims of stranger violence have themselves to blame.

That's not what I said though, is it? Nobody is to blame if they are attacked for no reason, but who do you think is more likely to walk alone in a dodgy area at night, a man or a woman?

Iced I don’t think it’s putting themselves in dangerous situations. I know men who have been attacked in bars and pubs or just walking down the street. Most men will not attack or hit a woman in public (in private is a different story) but I absolutely don’t think we can say that male victims of stranger violence have themselves to blame.

"Alison is arguing that Feminism is bad because White Feminsts do X or Y, is that not an attempt to build on Class Analysis"

No. It's an attempt to thwart class analysis. Radical feminists (who Alison is trying to pretend are all white) use class analysis to understand the way male power operates to oppress women of all classes and races. Alison is telling us not to do this because it's "colonialist".

Alison would also have to explain why she thinks only white feminists subscribe to the type of politics she is objecting to. She's wrong about that.

in terms of stranger violence, men are more vulnerable than women to being injured or killed.

Is this simply because they are men though? Are men randomly attacked by strange men on the street? Or are they more likely to put themselves in dangerous situations than women are?

dried to be fair, a male member of the royal family would also be vulnerable to an intruder and in terms of stranger violence, men are more vulnerable than women to being injured or killed. Someone sleeping rough on the streets is vulnerable to physical attacks, being urinated on, being verbally abused. To try to compare experiences is totally meaningless. Any supposed advantages are not experienced by those with privilege because they just know their own reality. Therefore, to try to castigate them for it is useless. Work on the social structures instead.

Because privilege is based on a class of people, as a class a man, no matter what his circumstances will likely benefit from Male privilege in some form throughout his life and the same can be said for white privilege.
I’ve never met a non-white person agree with the notion that white privilege doesn’t exist.

why are you so sure that white women are to blame

Where did I say that? Any talk of race on here just gets shut down anyway so I won’t bother discussing it.

Class analysis, which comes from Marx, doesn't use the concept of privilege at all.

(From a position of ingorance) When Alison is arguing that Feminism is bad because White Feminsts do X or Y, is that not an attempt to build on Class Analysis?

So you think only rich men benefit from Male privilege?

That certainly wasn't my point. I'm struggling to understand how the fact that sexism and racism exist can provide any support to Alison's arguments. They all seem like total leaps to me. She seems far more racist than the Feminsts she decries.

Do you think a homeless drug addict on the street personally experiences male privilege

He will experience the advantage of being male compared to a woman in the same situation. Homeless women routinely face violence and rape from men.

The Queen has enormous class advantages, but she still ended up with a man who broke into her bedroom in the middle of the night, and sat on her bed armed with a piece of glass.

In terms of there aren’t enough black/brown women at the forefront and also that issues that predominantly affect EM women aren’t vocalised much when speaking up for women

In regard to your broader point, looking at it in the British context, only about 14% of the population belong to ethnic minorities. Do you think that fewer than 14% of women 'at the forefront' of feminism belong to ethnic minorities? And if so, why are you so sure that white women are to blame, and what are we supposed to do about it?

I agree with earlier posters that this obsession with evil whites versus virtuous 'POC' is typical of the shallow Americanised wokeness that is having such a detrimental effect on public discourse. Race may be the major fault-line in America, but it isn't here. That of course is not to say that racism doesn't exist her because obivously it does. But class is a much more fundamental dividing line in British culture than race, although the two often intersect.