The problem with white feminism

How the fuck does that work?

That was one of several throwaway lines for which I could determine no logical coherence and she did not explain.

Where that happened (as that quote) I have tried to use the exact words she used because I haven't a scooby fucking do what her point was.

The whole thing is quite 'stream of consciousness'.

We as in society/feminism, not just white people.

Frackoff, have you met Alison?

In a mostly white country the representation of women will be mostly white. Representation gets slightly misused I think, we want representation of women at 50% but despite the fact the 90% of those women are white they are considered over represented by this white feminism trope.

This. Women are half the population of this country, but most are white so that is going to be reflected in the representation. We need to make sure that the experiences of black and minority women are considered in policy making and that all women have a voice, but yes British feminism is likely to be majority white women, numbers wise.

Thanks for the summary! Though surely if someone is already ill then listening to that drivel too constitutes cruel and unusual punishment.

I'm fairly sure that the reason no one will listen to Alison is that Alison is talking shite. Being smug about it really doesn't help as much as she seems to hope it will.

So much misogyny

Ok, so I listened to a few minutes in the middle to get some idea of her point, she said, "the idea the we (she was referring to western white women) own feminism is ridiculous." She seems to be basing that on the fact that women have written about their own experiences, but not mentioned the history of women in different cultures. (Germaine Greer did tons of that, so that has definitely not been my experience across the board)

I agree white people don't own feminism, I don't think they are claiming they are or that by writing about their experiences they believe they do. In a mostly white country the representation of women will be mostly white. Representation gets slightly misused I think, we want representation of women at 50% but despite the fact the 90% of those women are white they are considered over represented by this white feminism trope.

Hang on, back up a second. The whole thing is pretty incomprehensible, but... "Rad feminists define women by their capacity to reproduce which apparently excludes black women"

How the fuck does that work?!

Just googled Alison. I had foolishly assumed (having only heard her from this) that she was black and that her racism towards white people and claim to speak for black women was based on her experience.

Holy fuck. With hindsight that podcast is insane.

As PPs have said, there are so many issues which do affect non-white women more which could be drawn attention to, but nothing of that here.

She does hate women. She has said so before. She says that she has more in common with her ‘trans sisters’ than stupid biological women.

I can’t see how this is different to the ‘I don’t have female friends because women are such bitches’ type argument.

And yes, wonderful idea there. Don’t punish or even exclude sexual abusers. Many genius.

I’m sick of the only acceptable female behaviour and views being those defined by men. It’s the equivalent of white people only listening to other races if an Uncle Tom position is adopted.

Though I am sure all her students identify as being present.

Alison Phipps feels that Alison Phipps is very brave.

In what sense? Her's is a position supported by mainstream feminist organisations and universities and any divergence from it potentially gets you abused, sacked or no- platformed.

In what way is she remotely brave for expressing this incoherent drivel?

So, to precis: she hates women?

I do like a White Russian...

You would think you if over 90% of your students stop turning up at your lectures you would want to a) find out why and what you can do to improve the way you present your course and b) keep it quiet and hope your colleagues don’t pay too much attention.

In the rest of the world all feminism is focused on the material realities of women's lives because of course it bloody well is.

Quite bloody right too. I was listening to a podcast recently about the Batwa Pygmy people of Uganda and Congo. One of the many issues they face is their women being raped because there is still a belief amongst other more dominant ethnic groups like the Buganda that having sex with them cures HIV.

Sick in bed, so listened to it all. Gist as I listened below. Spoiler: I didn't find it convincing.

• The suffragettes wanted the vote because they were racist (don't ask for a rationale, there isn't any).
• Metoo is about carceral feminism and about privileged white women taking power from men rather than dismantling power.
• The polical whiteness of feminism makes trying to take back power and white women's anger problematic.
• Right wing feminists and liberal feminists are all the same, because they are politically white.
• Alison Phipps feels that Alison Phipps is very brave.
• The media is anti trans. The anti trans movement is embedded in the establishment and has all the platforms/money.
• How mean it was to suggest Munroe Bergdorf is not appropriate for the NSPCC just because she models porn. This is clearly about white supremacy.
• Blah, blah, blah colonialism.
• Lots and lots of repetition about how everyone in the world is wrong and evil and all think the same thing as Nazis and Piers Morgan because they are white.
• Explains waves of Feminism (sort of), which are all about white Feminism. Apparently the 4th wave is the internet.
• Punishing sexual violence causes violence.
• Everyone is feministing wrong. Everything feminism has achieved is a white supremacist, establishment lie (goes on a lot). No one will listen to Alison because of white fragility.
• White women who experience sexual violence should shut up and acknowledge their privilege.
• How do we deal with significant feminists doing unspeakable things (by opposing trans rights)? Their work is limited and myopic and inherently white.
• She really, really fucking hates the suffragettes.
• Rad feminists define women by their capacity to reproduce which apparently excludes black women.
• Alison is so wise.
• Laughing at the hypocrisy of opposing Geoffrey Boycotts knighthood.
• All men our sleazy so there is no point in naming and shaming. Sacking harassers is NIMBYism.
• Demands for safeguarding protections are inherently white and just feminists wanting their daddy to ride in and save them.
• Not saying that victims can't have their own spaces but... structural view, talking to men, something, something....right that's sexual assault sorted.
• Wow she's so inspiring. Buy her book.

FrackOff. Surely you were taking the piss with this recommendation? Even where it circles valid critique there is just no actual content.

This seems like an excellent way to gaze at our navels and feel incredibly guilty for just existing and get nothing done.

Yes, that's what I got from it. Any kind of action or view is 'problematic'.

Honestly, academic gender discourse is about as First World Problems as it gets. In the rest of the world all feminism is focused on the material realities of women's lives because of course it bloody well is.

I remember when the stories about the women's village in Kenya hit the news and there were TRAs handwringing dramatically about whether or not it was inclusive of transwomen and I was just going, well, in the event that any show up I'm sure they'll put that right at the top of their priority list.

[hmm}

sounds pretty racist if you ask me. im sure a thread critiquing "Black feminism" etc would not have been taken too well and rightly so.

seems like white people can never do anything right ever again because someone long ago who isnt alive anymore did colonialism.

Nothing will ever be enough for these people.

I mean, I know low student attendance is a bit of a problem but if you have 3 out of 80 students for half a semester then chances are it’s because of you.

Absolutely. 20% of students not attending a lecture, I would class as poor attendance / abnormal. There is definitely something else going on there.

But there’s a massive gap between this language — popularized within Gender Studies classrooms in the West — and the realities of marginalized women in countries like mine.

There's a massive gap between the language of Gender Studies classrooms in the West and the realities of marginalised women period.

It isn't helping the Syrian refugee women down the road from me, it isn't helping the learning disabled women who frequent my workplace, it isn't helping the teenage girl my neighbour fosters.

Quite the opposite, it is taking resources away from all these rather more pressing matters, but I guess these are just cunty women with real problems so who cares?

I didn’t know that grumpy

Thanks. This is such a great place here wher we get to learn

Thanks LBD. I love Raquel. It’s nearly ALWAYS white woke women who use the term to try to point-score and to set themselves up as different and better than the rest. Often ageist too- explicitly and disgustingly so. They also frequently invoke really offensive stereotypes of black women and suggest that they aren’t ‘real women’ which is such utter offensive bullshit that I don’t know where to start. There are plenty of women of colour in the GC movement.

Oh and I have zero clue how Alison and Sally’s woke ‘cis-privilege’ discourse is supposed to help the many women across the globe who are raped, mutilated, killed at birth etc. Yep, super privileged in comparison to the white middle class men and boys who decide they feel like a woman.