The problem with white feminism

I was hoping to be educated

Oh yeah, I missed OPs little passive aggressive dig

And I’ve been @-ing @FrackOff as requested but they seem to have changed their mind about wanting to talk

Nah, she’ll just be all ‘Silly mummies on Mumsnet are incapable of understanding my Very Important Clever Work’. A bit like the op’s subtle little dig about having a job

I have a funny feeling if Alison does search her own name, she may weaponise her own 'white feminist tears' rather than replying to the many valid points across the thread

I'm from an area that was colonised. Hell, go back far enough and nearly everywhere has been colonised once upon a time! Post post post post colonialism?

She must be aware that black women are frequently raped by white men - indeed have been throughout history. Is she seriously suggesting that those men shouldn't go to prison? Her argument isn't at all clear.

There's a specifically US problem that it's an excessively 'carceral' society, with disproportionate numbers of black people being jailed, sometimes for minor infringements of the law. If that's being conflated with 'should rapists and sex slave traffickers be jailed' then all its proof of is horribly muddled woman-blaming 'thinking'.

I also thought that was what she was drawing from.

Even in an American context though it's shallow, this assumption that this kind of police action in black communities is only about white people targeting black men. A significant push for that kind of response was actually from black communities who were tired of their neighbourhoods being dangerous and controlled by the drug trade. Municipal politicians saw that kind of action as a way of showing they were supporting those communities and giving them resources, and you a lot of the same thing happened where the political roles were held by black Americans too who promised their own communities would be cleaned up.

Even in an American context there is a sense of choosing only a partial perspective of the black community and not looking at the difficult questions and contradictions. While I doubt any of those community members are really keen on the % of the prison population made up of young black men, but they also aren't crazy about drugs or gang violence in their neighbourhoods or trying to recruit their kids.

Let’s start from the beginning @FrackOff , can you explain how you define ‘white feminism’?

Post colonial feminism?

Colonialism
the policy or practice of acquiring full or partial political control over another country, occupying it with settlers, and exploiting it economically.

I don't come from a background where that activity was a positive for white women. I come from a background where the wholesale movement of jobs to other countries was devastating on the economy and for women. There was a real woman from that region crying her white tears on TV yesterday about how this is still starving people. In a 95% white area.

This is such silly privileged writing.

Not sure how the US not prosecuting a white man (Brock Turner) for raping an Asian woman (the victim wasn't white, and since this is super woke anti carceral feminism we will be ignoring the working or middle class townies versus rich kids at elite university and a judge who was an alumnus of the very same university aspect of that case) would help black men, but I'm sure Frack will be happy to explain. Or Alison, if she vanity searches her own name.

Ok.@FrackOff this is a quote from the podcast

Rad feminists define women by their capacity to reproduce which apparently excludes black women

In the words of a PP, how does that work then? Do you agree with Alison on this point? If so why?

@FrackOff What on earth did you like about it?

What do you think to the critiques on the thread that her arguments lack coherence?

Also, it's very long and very repetitive. I think people don't need to listen to the whole thing to engage.

Postcolononial?

Seems we're firmly in the American cultural/political colonial era.

Fuck a duck Lang, I was really hoping I had missed something. Gosh. Goodness. Well indeed.

As others have said, equating the genuine problem of over-use of jail sentences for minor crimes committed by blacks people, which I do understand is a serious injustice in the US especially (here too) with the idea that jailing a Brock Turner or Larry Nassar is wrong is just... well. Scary.

Still remember my sister to stop being an ‘overdramatic idiot’ because the started screaming when a consultant wanted to stitch her third degree tear up before the local anesthetic could kick in. She had to be pushed off her by a midwife. Thankfully bil works for the NHS and was able to make one of the highest level of complaints - apparently this Indian consultant did this a lot to Indian patients.

I, for one, spend all day hating men. After all, the arguments against workplace discrimination, sexual violence and self ID just disappear without a little man-hate.

zero interest.

Non-white women in distress inspire less sympathy than white women even amongst people of their own race. It’s one of the key reasons why maternity outcomes across the western world are worse for non-white women. Happens in the UK too - Milton Keynes General was forced to turn into a teaching hospital (or close) because of systemic racism across the board when it came to how the hospital treated non-white women compared to white women.

There's a specifically US problem that it's an excessively 'carceral' society, with disproportionate numbers of black people being jailed, sometimes for minor infringements of the law. If that's being conflated with 'should rapists and sex slave traffickers be jailed' then all its proof of is horribly muddled woman-blaming 'thinking'.

Yes that's a good point, but it's a popular idea here too, and yes, seems to be directed mostly at the female victims of sex and other violent crime and those who advocate for their justice when it comes up in "feminism".

I have zero interest in the views of anyone who treats 'men' as a homogenous mass. Such people tend to have extremely ill informed and superficial world views.

I, for one, spend all day hating men. After all, the arguments against workplace discrimination, sexual violence and self ID just disappear without a little man-hate.

I'm all for having a wider, honest discussion about how society as a whole views imprisonment and the judicial system, should minor infringements lead to a prison sentence etc. I don't deny that black people, in the US as well as the UK have been disproportionately targeted and imprisoned for minor crimes.

But to extrapolate those very valid concerns and debates with the crackpot idea that wanting imprisonment of serious criminals like rapists is somehow a bad thing.............. I don't even have the words.

Try not to look any further. You will weep tears of blood.

White tears of privileged blood, I think you must mean, Lang!

There's a specifically US problem that it's an excessively 'carceral' society, with disproportionate numbers of black people being jailed, sometimes for minor infringements of the law. If that's being conflated with 'should rapists and sex slave traffickers be jailed' then all its proof of is horribly muddled woman-blaming 'thinking'.

Is it just rapists she thinks shouldn't be jailed? What about serial killers? Should we just let them walk free too? What about the criminally insane like my brother in law? Should he be free to stab a few more people?

Is she saying that jailing rapists is bad? Have I fundamentally misunderstood something here?

Yes, yes she is. This is called anti-carceral feminism and it is beloved of the penis-centring Woke.

Try not to look any further. You will weep tears of blood.