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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Play equipment is a feminist issue

165 replies

artisanparsnips · 06/11/2019 08:57

I've posted the message below on chat, but would really like your perspective on this as well. I'm starting to talk to people who might be interested in campaigning on this, so would love feedback.

Quick question, what outdoor play facilities are there in your local area for older children - skate park, graffiti wall, pump track? And how much are they used by girls? And is there anything else that the girls use?

I'm asking because my eyes have been totally opened by the Caroline Criado Perez book, where she points out, almost incidentally, that almost all facilities for older/teenage children are used mostly by boys. I looked at what was on offer in my town and lo, it was all the above, and a football/basketball pitch. And I watched all summer and they were all used by 80% boys at best.

So I really want to know how usual/unusual this is, and any other thoughts that you have.

And yes, I have name changed because anyone who knows me will recognise this issue straight away....

OP posts:
UpfieldHatesWomen · 06/11/2019 10:25

Sadly, my only memories of playing sports in public places outside of PE and youth clubs was when dubious older lads in their twenties would get us to play basketball with them with undertones of grooming. Sorry I don't know what the solution is, but I agree it's an issue, a lot to do with girls needing to feel safe from dominating, violent, bullying behaviour from the lads. I look at my life now and don't go to the gym at certain times of day due to unwanted attention from the Neanderthals who dominate at particular times, and seem to think their bigger muscles equate to more rights to dominating the equipment and space, despite paying the say subscription as the women. This is the real problem, male entitlement that needs to be tackled early on in school PE sessions.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 06/11/2019 10:22

I've just posted a link to a bbc video which looks (briefly) at this issue!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-50269778/what-would-a-city-designed-by-women-be-like

artisanparsnips · 06/11/2019 10:22

@Curtainly Yes, I loved basketball as a teenager too, but part of the problem here is what @sillysmiles describes, running the gauntlet at narrow entrances. If courts are more open, girls use them more, so this is one simple way in which design can change and become more equal.

@Wrath, yes, twice. Here is a problem with girls trying to play football

Also, here is the whole Kathleen Jamie review. Her nature writing is brilliant, I love all of her books.

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WrathofSIxFootSIxEIfKIop · 06/11/2019 10:19

I believe it is the fun, random forms of active play of primary age children that prepares them for organised sporting activities later on.

Many girls are missing this early stage.

BarkandCheese · 06/11/2019 10:17

I’ve never thought about this before, but it’s so true. My local park has a small skate park and a basketball/football court. If I walk the dog there at lunchtime I often see the boys from the local schools playing football, the girls are mostly sitting at the benches or picnic tables. Occasionally I see them on the swings, but I’ve also seen them being told to get off the swings by the parents of preschoolers as they’re “too old” for them.

Although my local park doesn’t have one I’ve seen girls using the outdoor gyms which are popping up in parks. I have a almost 12 year old DD who hates sport because she’s not good at it, the one thing she likes is swimming, but she’s not good enough to swim competitively and there are very limited hours at my local pool for children not having lessons or in the squad. She also love mucking about in playgrounds, but she’s rapidly aging out of this. I’d love to see more climbing and scrambling stuff for older children.

WrathofSIxFootSIxEIfKIop · 06/11/2019 10:11

As girls have the opportunity to join football teams now.
Do pre teen girls play spontaneous games of football in parks like the boys have always done?

Curtainly · 06/11/2019 10:11

How about we support girls more in sport, rather than assume the sports equipment is for boys and girls would like a play park with swings in it? Basketball is a pretty neutral sport, if you put netball hoops in which is a female sport (happy to be corrected if boys ever play it at school or have any professional teams?) would that be fair? When I was a teen plenty of us used to skateboard, although admittedly the issue with these facilities is overwhelmingly that they are used inappropriately by older teens; which affects both boys and girls. I'm not saying it isn't an issue, but what sporting facilities for girls would you like to see?

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 06/11/2019 10:04

My eldest is only 8, but I've noticed the three big draws at a park for groups if young teenagers are swings, zip lines and those massive spiders webs.

CriticalCondition · 06/11/2019 10:03

This is really interesting question OP.

There's currently a BBC item called 'What would a city designed by women be like?' in my news feed. Sorry can't link it at the mo. It has a section in it about playgrounds in Barcelona designed by a group of female architects . They divided up play areas with paths and benches with equipment dotted around rather than a large empty central space surrounded by benches which they found tended to get taken over by football.

LangCleg · 06/11/2019 09:59

This chapter of CCP's book really opened my eyes. I agree it's a feminist issue. I think it needs a lot of us petitioning local councils.

WrathofSIxFootSIxEIfKIop · 06/11/2019 09:56

why so much of nature writing is produced by what Kathleen Jamie brilliantly called 'the lone, enraptured male'
Artisan, that is so true
Grin

WrathofSIxFootSIxEIfKIop · 06/11/2019 09:54

Stillathing
Would have been too intimidated when I was a kid. I loved skating but was very average
That is exactly it isn't it?
Spontaneous play practice at an early age, larking around climbing trees, climbing frames, balancing on logs and walls etc. All the potential skills and confidence, lost.

Next stage is do a sports competition in which girls have lost the crucial early stage of spontaneous play around the age of 9 or 10.

I remember it well.

BlingLoving · 06/11/2019 09:45

OP - you are right that this is an issue. I think there are two pieces:

  1. Why are girls who DO want to use this type of equipment, not using it (eg safety, lack of female leaders etc)
  1. For girls who DO want to do different things, what are the options?

I don't have answers for the second one but also picked this up in IW and am planning to reread the book as frankly, there was just SO MUCH that I can't keep most of it in my head.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 06/11/2019 09:44

I can speak for myself, and while I was younger, we all played together on bike and stuff. But once I got to teenage years the boys and girls very much split off. And whilst at school I was fine being the only girl in more than one class, outside of school it was more risky - yes, I sometimes hung out with the boys, but occasionally you could feel the atmosphere change (generally when certain boys were there) - it was always a little bit of a tightrope watching what I was doing and what I was wearing so I didn't invite thoughts/actions that would escalate.

TBH, it's similar as an adult - I work mainly with men, and now I'm a mid-40s mother it's fine, but as a younger, single woman I had to be very careful with the message I gave off - I've had to make a quick exit to escape more than one slightly drunk colleague who got a bit aggressively handsy.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 06/11/2019 09:38

Anecdotally its really common for girls to give up sports during their teenage years. Navigating changing bodies, stupidly revealing clothing and the male gaze is tough. One has also entered the period of life where one is public property and looks, clothes, facial expressions etc are up for comment by any passing male strangers

While all of this is true I also think there is a problem with schools concentrating on sports to the exclusion of other physical activities which is off putting. I know it put me off. I have no interest at all in competitive sport as a participant. Especially not team sports.

I'd have been much less inclined to skip PE (which I did from 3rd year of high school onwards) if there had been a non sport option in every block. Things like circuit training, orienteering, aerobics and so forth always appealed to me much more.

I'm not sure the conflation of fitness and sport is very helpful.

sillysmiles · 06/11/2019 09:37

My memory from the book is that is it also about access points and not having a "gauntlet" effect that teenage girls find intimidating.

HuggedTrees · 06/11/2019 09:36

@Velveteenfruitbowl you are suggesting that teenage girls should be into that nonsense seriously I hope you aren’t telling your children this! That skateboarding is for girls and girls should be sitting in the parks and cafes only!

artisanparsnips · 06/11/2019 09:33

Oh, and this is the Public Sector Equality Duty:

The act says that public authorities need to:
• remove or reduce disadvantages suffered by people because of a protected characteristic
• meet the needs of people with protected characteristics
• encourage people with protected characteristics to participate in public life and other activities

On all of those grounds, I would argue that providing free skate parks and pump tracks which are used 80% by boys is a direct contravention of the act.

OP posts:
ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 06/11/2019 09:33

artisanparsnip I wasn't talking about a specific park. I think perhaps you meant to direct your DM request to stillathing?

artisanparsnips · 06/11/2019 09:32

And yes to those bars, that's a really good thought.

OP posts:
artisanparsnips · 06/11/2019 09:31

And it is possible to design things differently.

This document by play England includes two play areas - one just for teenagers, one for all ages, which are used equally by girls and boys. Coombe Abbey Park and Cowley Teenage Space, at the end of it all.

OP posts:
WrathofSIxFootSIxEIfKIop · 06/11/2019 09:30

Shoes!
Now that girls proudly wear trainers and trousers/leggings etc then this is the time to add a wall for handstands.

WrathofSIxFootSIxEIfKIop · 06/11/2019 09:26

If the designs really do have boys in mind then the girls will self select out as they get to their teens.

I don't know what girls would actually want that would be different. Younger girls seem to like swings but these are for toddler use nowadays.

You don't see many climbing frames these days (safety I know), but those low horizontal bars to turn over were always a favourite of girls.
Skipping and French skipping probably banned in schools now. Sigh.
Their could be netball hoops in parks as well as basketball areas. But we all know what will happen, the netball hoops will get damaged cos they are lower down.
Damaged by the older boys.
Another sigh.

stillathing · 06/11/2019 09:26

Agree that part of the problem is analysing the reasons for self excluding.

Anecdotally its really common for girls to give up sports during their teenage years. Navigating changing bodies, stupidly revealing clothing and the male gaze is tough. One has also entered the period of life where one is public property and looks, clothes, facial expressions etc are up for comment by any passing male strangers.

And I agree it IS training for staying out of the public sphere. I lose count of the number of times I've attracted scolding, criticism, abuse and even physical attack for the heinous crime of cycling or jogging unchaperoned.

JoyceJeffries · 06/11/2019 09:25

I’ve never reAlly thought about it before but you have a point.

I really need to buy this book!

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