Transwoman MMA fighter says unfair to compete against women

Fallon Fox was the moment I realised just what this is all leading to for women. Well done Anne and shame on Fox.

Brain injuries are also a problem in rugby* (which I hate), and which is allowing XY trans people to knowingly cause serious injury to women. At least the major MMA promotions have the wit to ban XY trans people from the women's competition.

*interestingly this article suggests increased size of players in the men's game is leading to more serious injuries

www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/rugby-concussion-head-injury-problem-a8803111.html

To many in rugby, which turned professional in 1995 and has seen the average weight of an international player rise by more than two stone during that time (to around 16st 5lb), there is a clear connection between increased size, strength and power and an alarming spike in injuries, not least concussion.

The majority of deaths in MMA are from brain injury

MMA fighters are extremely fit and healthy people usually aged 20-35. On the rare occasions that they die, it's not going to be from dementia.

Re: knockouts being the quickest and easiest ways to end a fight. If you're a heavyweight, yes. The likelihood of winning via knockout reduces as the fighters get lighter. By the time you get to 125lb, fighters who can inflict a knockout are pretty few and far between, and fight strategy becomes much more about out-scoring or submitting your opponent.

The issue with XY trans people fighting women is not that their goal is to win. It is that it isn't a fair contest in the same way a heavy weight against a light weight isn't a fair contest

Not quite, the issue is they know it’s not a fair contest and that doesn’t stop them from wanting to win by inflicting serious injury.

You’re correct, I despise fighting sports. A man died from his brain injuries recently. It was his opponent’s goal to try and inflict enough brain injury to win, but not enough to kill him, and it went wrong. It goes wrong when you put two males in the ring with each other who are matched pound for pound. Putting males in with females is insanity that will result in death.

The majority of deaths in MMA are from brain injury:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalities_in_mixed_martial_arts_contests

The vast majority of boxing deaths are from brain injury:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_due_to_injuries_sustained_in_boxing

Are you saying that if a fighter went into the ring (or cage or whatever they call it) with the intention of landing savage body blows as their winning strategy, but were presented with a wide open chin with no hands defending it, they wouldn’t take that opportunity?

No, I'm saying that in MMA there are fighters who don't have the striking skills to take advantage of a wide open chin, some (Demian Maia springs to mind) have built their careers on grappling. And there are fighters who are too stubborn to go down even when struck cleanly on the wide open chin, which is why the last UFC main event was stopped by the doctor after the third round. The crowd didn't like it but it was the right decision. Nate Diaz is of the 'too stubborn for his own good' school of fighting.. A wide open chin will not always result in a knock out.

All fighters are happy to inflict serious injury to win. And to receive serious injury to win.

The issue with XY trans people fighting women is not that their goal is to win. It is that it isn't a fair contest in the same way a heavy weight against a light weight isn't a fair contest. No XY person should be competing against women in any sport where physicality matters. It is cheating.

Are you saying that if a fighter went into the ring (or cage or whatever they call it) with the intention of landing savage body blows as their winning strategy, but were presented with a wide open chin with no hands defending it, they wouldn’t take that opportunity?

Yes there are many ways to win, but causing TBI is a significant one - I said it’s the ultimate one because it’s what “knock out” refers to - and trans women go into the cage knowing they may well inflict TBI on women. They also go into the cage knowing that a clean strike to their woman opponent’s liver will crumple them every time. Trans women fighting are happy to inflict serious injury on women to win.

Why aren’t people just kicking the body from the neck down?

A lot are. One of the most successful tactics is to repeatedly kick the leg of your opponent taking away their ability to mount an offense.

And while there are any fighters who can withstand repeated head strikes a clean strike to the liver crumples the hardiest opponents every time.

Then of course there the grappling side to MMA.

I appreciate many people dislike combat sports, but to say knocking your opponent out is the ultimate goal for most is an exaggeration. It isn't boxing, there are many ways to win.

And I would add, you don’t need to put someone in a coma to cause traumatic brain injury. If you land a blow that causes disorientation, that’s TBI. If there’s concussion even without loss of consciousness, that’s TBI.

And coming back to my original point: if a trans woman is entering the ring with a woman, they presumably have no issue with this as a possible outcome. Did Fallon Fox only go for body blows to try and win? Or grappling? No, Fallon Fox shatters Tamikka Brents’ eye socket. Fallon Fox had no issue with potentially causing TBI in a female opponent, beating Erika Newsome by KO with a knee to the head.

Of course it is. There are other ways to win, yes, but causing a knock out is the quickest and easiest. Why do people punch and kick their opponents in the head, if not to try and cause brain injury? Why aren’t people just kicking the body from the neck down? Because they know if they land a blow in the right spot, and cause a TBI, they’ll win. That’s what a knock out is: diffuse traumatic brain injury.

Maybe tactically it’s not the best strategy for some fighters whose strengths lie elsewhere but it certainly is the ultimate goal for most.

The ultimate aim of MMA or boxing is to cause traumatic brain injury in your opponent.

No it isn't 😂 you don't go into the ring with a goal of causing that, I don't think I've ever read anything so ridiculous. There are other ways of winning a fight other than trying to put someone into a coma 🤔

@ArnoldWhatshisknickers

I am really surprised that no one has used the concept of weight class to illuminate the problems with transwomen in other female sports.

There's no way people wouldn't see the issues with pittting a fly weight against a heavy weight in the boxing ring, so why should a female rugby player face a 6 foot plus transwoman who may weigh twice what she does?

Well, that's the difference between someone who's an actual competitor who's good at their sport and someone whose only hope of winning is by cheating, isn't it?

Exactly that.

There's a cheetah at the local zoo who has made it known he identifies as a human male. I do hope the men will understand when he is allowed to compete in the next Olympic sprinting events.

And then eats one or more of them at the end of the race.

DuMonde

It isn't that Veriato could not, in theory, compete in the lowest weight men's division, which in UFC is the 125lb flyweight, the current flyweight champion Henry Cejudo also holds the 135 bantamweight belt after all, you are allowed to compete up a division but you have to be an exceptional talent to realistically have success against larger men.

It is a problem on the women's side, as there are a number of very talented fighters (Tecia Torres springs to mind) who aren't really big enough for even the lowest, straw weight for women, class. I could see an atom weight division being introduced in future for women. I think a straw weight division for men is less likely. 115 lbs is tiny for a man.

Bellator currently only go down to bantam weight for men which would be even more difficult.

It’s a shame Anne Veriato’s small stature (5’ 3”!) means AV will never be able to compete at the top levels - it actually makes AV’s stance even more admirable, there would be far greater opportunity to compete in the women’s division.

My DH was aware of trans sports issues way before I was due to Fallon Fox - he’s a fan of MMA and did various obscure martial arts in his youth, as well as taking several stints of being the protective-suited fake ‘attacker’ for women’s self defence classes. He’s well aware of the discrepancies between male and female strength, yet respectful of what women can achieve with training.
Sounds like Anne Veriato is too.

Also, love that one of Anne’s wins was at an event called ‘Mr Cage’.

www.sherdog.com/fighter/Anne-Veriato-281797

No fights in over a year though - feel free to update us on your sporting life if you ever come across this thread on a self-google, Anne!

There's a cheetah at the local zoo who has made it known he identifies as a human male. I do hope the men will understand when he is allowed to compete in the next Olympic sprinting events.

'They will only respect me after I have a few fights, but I know that a lot of people still won't respect me.'

Women will, and sportsmen.
I have grave reservations about this sort of sport which can inflict severe injuries, but here at last is a literally 'brave and stunning' transwoman.

I'm not good enough at any of my chosen sports to compete as an adult either at this point. Doesn't mean I get to go join the under 13s division, where I would dominate with ease.

That's amazing.
My position is that transwomen should compete with men.
If they aren't good enough, so be it. Most ppl aren't good enough. Join the rest of us without destroying women's sports.

There's a famous trans footballer who stayed competing with men. I admire them hugely.

Fallon Fox is a featherweight (145 lbs), Anne Veriato is a straw eight (115 lbs). Fox is a bigger person.

Veriato would not be able to compete in the bigger MMA promotions as neither UFC nor Bellator have a men's straw eight division and neither allow males to compete against women.

Well, that's the difference between someone who's an actual competitor who's good at their sport and someone whose only hope of winning is by cheating, isn't it?

Yes.

Anne appears to be a good bit smaller than Fallon too. With a much, much bigger sense of ethics and of fairness.

Soubriquet

I watched an interview with one of Fox's female opponent, who spoke of Fox's power and strength - and that Fox's punches were much more powerful than that of her other opponents.

She couldn't add much more, because women are forbidden from discussing tge Emperor's new clothes.

I wonder if Fallon will release a statement about this.

Why does Fallon think it’s ok to fight against women when Anne clearly says it wouldn’t be right?

Well, duh!