Oh look, it's those guidelines making no sense whatsoever again!

I came on here a bit confused, because I've just read Frack's thread, when earlier it had gone missing, but I see it's been reinstated now. Good!
Best thing is to shine some sunlight on all of this, let people read for themselves what's involved

This is a really important thread, because the guidelines here are incredibly frustrating and one sided. Like Talking said, they assume that we are a group of 'bad women' 'being mean' to trans people which is complete DARVO. Trans rights activists are trying to remove our rights, so we are speaking up about that. To be silenced, censored and punished for that is incredibly unfair and frustrating.

I had a post deleted recently and when I asked why I was told that my use of apostrophe around the word transwoman was 'uncivil' because apparently it implied I didn't think they existed (despite me never saying anything of the sort) and that it sounded like I was implying all transwomen had a mental health problem. My post was not uncivil at all, it was well thought out and I used language and terms used by Stonewall, trans people themselves as well as Ray Blanchard to explain my point. Some transwomen are diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and I was pointing this out to highlight how there are very different groups under the term transwoman which I don't think the public are aware of.

It felt very scold's bridle to be deleted and chastised. I re read the email and could only conclude that the moderator was anti-women and was assuming I was 'being mean' to trans people, or that he/she had been persuaded by a TRA to read intention in my post that simply was not there.

It makes me feel like a child to be chastised, silenced and warned like that. It's awful. I was on Mumsnet earlier this year and for months on end TRAs were allowed to derail, filibuster and ruin thread after thread and nothing was done. I left because of that, it felt pointless trying to be part of the debate when the debate was being so poorly managed.

I've returned to join in again since it looks like some of those derailers have finally been banned, but it does seem like the moderating, particularly at the weekend, has become even more pro TRA biased with the constant assumption that women fighting to keep our sex based rights are in the wrong.

Good.

MNHQ pretty clearly has an issue - which affects other boards too, the general spammers and trollers, and their resulting troll hunters - with 'off peak' moderation. Except weekends and evenings aren't off peak for posters, particularly ones bent on troublemaking.

Maybe there needs to be more thread suspension rather than going straight to deleting the whole thread in cases where the mods on duty can't deal with everything post at a time. They may be simultaneously be trying to handle more than one thread and simply be overwhelmed. Pause (but deletion of any ensuing attempts at TAAT ) might calm things down without causing bad feeling?

MNHQ - thanks for putting the Frack thread back up. But I will say: again the restoration message elided what had actually happened. No acknowledgement of error on your part. No acknowledgement that a lack of understanding of the dynamics of community disruption is at play. Just a warning to regular users not to doxx - when they don't anyway and were the ones pointing out that it's bad on the thread.

You are putting unacceptable levels of stress on your regular users and pretending this is not happening is so awful.

The thread's back up. Maybe that deletion message reflects the inexperience of the weekend moderating team. Especially the use of the words 'we think'.

It’s back up.

They could have just deleted the troublesome posts, rather than the whole thing.
But... TRAs don't like having their arse handed to them do they.

MNHQ caved. Again. I don't really trust their judgment anymore.

This was their excuse on Frack's deletion.

I agree there's a lot of inconsistency.

I am joining the chorus calling for the reinstatement of Frack's reference thread. Although I missed the end, it was clear it was not going the way Frack had intended. So I am not surprised Frack wanted it gone.

And I want to thank the many articulate and informed posters who were politely tearing apart Frack's supposed evidence. That was the sort of evidence that could protect some young people from an irreversible mistake.

@MNHQ please reinstate it. You have been played.

Late catching up with the thread but wow & a huge YES to talking's post from a few days ago.

I am totally fed up with posters making excuses for the mods deleting innocuous posts at the behest of misogynistic TRAs. Mumsnet is at fault.
Enough already.
This is a women's forum where women should be able to state their beliefs, opinions and feelings using whatever language they want. If TRAs don't like it then they can do the sensible thing and not read it rather than hitting the report button whining that the mummies are being mean.
Enough I want free speech not coercive control.

I am a long time Mumsnetter and mostly lurker who has only recently found my way on to the Feminist chat because of the M&S changing rooms fiasco.

It has been an absolute revelation reading some of the threads here which are clear, articulate and far more polite than many of the threads I've read over the years on the rest of the site. I also have to applaud Talking's post for explaining the issues so clearly and have saved a copy for myself.

I didn't read the thread that has been deleted recently but would really like to read it and the linked references so that, like a previous poster, I can try and get a rounded view on the trans debate. I really hope it's reinstated soon.

I missed the end of Fracks thread. But thankful to have read many of the polite, measured, considered and informed posts before it was deleted.

Just to confirm, I won’t stop posting on here and I won’t stop talking. Precisely because it is clear there are some significantly weighty individuals who are determined to silence us.
Not happening!

Please reinstate the thread MNHQ.

I am always extremely careful about what I write and where I write it when it comes to my (strong) opinions on this.
It seems to be that the mods have been under pressure from "outside forces" to clamp down on what is now, sadly, inexplicably considered hate speech.
It seems that it is perfectly ok to silence women, silence lesbians, silence black people, silence mothers, silence (insert type of person here), but it's not ok to discuss a matter that is slowly destroying woman-hood as a concept.
I find it all frightening. But I think that's what is happening. I think the mods KNOW it's not ok, but they are being pressured into controlling how we discuss the whole issue so as not to cause offence to men who want to be something they quite clearly are not.

Occasional poster, mostly lurker here

@MNHQ I am a regular user and poster across MN as you will be able to see from my footprint in my various names. But it’s the Feminism Chat that keeps me coming back to the site for daily reading. It is an education and a privilege to be able to access so much knowledge from likeminded feminists. PLEASE stop deleting GC threads - and please lay off on the heavy-handed moderation. As a regular across MN I am painfully aware that the standards of moderation are much stricter here than in eg AIBU and Baby names or even Chat. There is no way posters in Feminism would get away with the common responses on other threads - Are you on glue? That’s batshit. No, you’re a CF. HTH. You ok,hun?
And God forbid we post a
And quite simply that inconsistency is not fair or proper.

I didn’t see the demise of Frack’s reference post, so I have no idea how that transpired- but it’s hard to believe that follow on posts could cause a whole thread to be deleted.

@MNHQ have you actually looked at the activity of your core users - I suspect many of your moderators think the Feminists are some niche group - I am confident we are not. We are your core audience- and if you can’t respect your core customers then you may just go the way of Ratners.

It’s time for MN to get off the fence - at heart this is a site for Mums and we would like to talk about ALL issues that concern us. @MNHQ if you can’t support us with this, we will find somewhere else for All our needs.

This feels so bizarre. Frack's thread was fascinating and full of relevant and intelligent posts from other posters. It should be pinned, not bloody deleted!

Yes, they probably can. But try Googling Pronouns Are Rohypnol & see what comes up. Talking’s post is taking on a life beyond Mumsnet, just like Barracker’s did.

MNHQ - I said it earlier in the thread but I'll say it again: fabulous posts you are deleting here are going viral on other platforms, all of which have a much more significant reputation for censoring feminists than you do. And yet - they stand in those places.

So, I ask: where has this appeasement policy got you? You're still hated by genderists. They still accuse you of being a hate site. They'll never stop doing that, no matter how one-sided your application of the Special Rules for Uppity Women, no matter how many unjust strikes you send out, no matter how many threads you delete for spurious reasons.

Why? Because your website is populated by women.

Why can't you see this?

Talking’s post is taking on a life beyond Mumsnet, just like Barracker’s did.

I love that

I guess it also explains why the TRAs are so desperate to get mumsnet shut down.

I just saw Talking's post on Spinster.

And now TRA can get this thread and Talking’s excellent post deleted for being aTAAT.

Yes, they probably can. But try Googling Pronouns Are Rohypnol & see what comes up. Talking’s post is taking on a life beyond Mumsnet, just like Barracker’s did.

And if MN did delete it, I think that might be a very clear signal for us all to go elsewhere.

I see what's going on. This is why I semi lurk these days.
That thread from Frack turned out to be extremely informative. Absolutely shocking if it is permanently deleted.

In short - we have to tolerate the baked-in racism, sexism and homophobia of a socio-political ideology but the slightest clarity in expression of a feminist viewpoint is enthusiastically censored.

It's a sorry state of affairs and I think we all know it.

Just reminding everyone that the thread was started because Kittens got a strike for pointing out that the genderist demotion of black women as women in order to compare them to a particular set of XY people is fucking racist.

And that Orchid, a member of 14 years standing, who had never been warned or deleted until genderists came along, had her account suspended on behalf of a confused 16-year-old because the mods were incapable of recognising an obviously fake thread and then allowed a TAAT to stand with no duty of care towards the kid even recognised.

We can all give examples of our own.

Frack's thread should be reinstated, yes: but we have a much deeper problem than that.

And now TRA can get this thread and Talking’s excellent post deleted for being aTAAT.
How has Mumnsnet let it get to this?
I also think what happened was disgraceful MN. Disgraceful and entirely predictable. I lurk, but I’ve seen the exact thing several times in the last couple of years.