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Original poster

Oh look, it's those guidelines making no sense whatsoever again!

691 replies

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 04/11/2019 17:09

So, I got an email about a comment in which I said that I wanted to know why genderists keep comparing trans identified males to black women and lesbians being deleted. I think this is absolutely barmy, and have said so to HQ. I'm also baffled as to how this breaks any guidelines and thought perhaps it was time for us as a group to revisit the guidelines and explain once more to MNHQ why they're not working.

What's actually happening here is the the obsessive trans activists who monitor this site are attempting to pick off posters one by one. We lost Orchid last week, and she was just the most recent of many. I'm not sure in MNHQ realize that's happening and welcome it or if it's somehow escaped their notice, but it's a pretty messed up thing for them to be allowing to happen to their users, in my opinion. Are they going to allow this to continue until the only commenters left in this forum are the TRAs who want the entire site shut down?

I know the people who despise the women here would very much like this to all happen under the radar, and that's exactly why I'm not allowing it to play out that way.

OP posts:
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Driechdrizzle · 05/11/2019 01:01

bell hooks wrote "Feminism is for Everybody" back in 2000, promoting the thinking that was a precursor to all this.

www.plutobooks.com/blog/feminism-is-for-everybody-bell-hooks/

Feminism is for men too!

No it isn't.

Original poster
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 05/11/2019 00:59

My feminism includes reality, as unpopular as that is these days.

OP posts:
theflushedzebra · 05/11/2019 00:54

"My feminism includes males" has to be the least feminist thing ever. And I thought the third wave "fun feminism" was bad!

Driechdrizzle · 05/11/2019 00:52

"My pronouns" is similar to "my feminism", people trying to take ownership of something that doesn't belong to them.

DetroitMotorCity · 05/11/2019 00:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Creepster · 05/11/2019 00:46

Pronouns simply cannot function as correction fluid for those who are dissatisfied with reality.

Original poster
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 05/11/2019 00:43

(The rules also force me to write in a way that makes my inner editor cry, as the comment above illustrates. If HQ doesn't care about us can it not at least display some concern for the dignity of the English language?)

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DetroitMotorCity · 05/11/2019 00:41

Why should you have rewritten?

He needs to get over his bad self and stop being utterly ridiculous. They them!

If Edward wants you use linguistic gymnastics to refer to himself, fine, but why demand others energy to do the same to pandering to a fucking FAD.

Original poster
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 05/11/2019 00:40

Bluntly, I don't care if Edward Lord considers themselves to be a they/them. The rules are putting me in a position where I have to either appear to care or not be allowed to post at all, and that is a political decision on the part of HQ. One that puts everyone else's feelings above those of the women who are its core users.

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theflushedzebra · 05/11/2019 00:38

Really, the control of women's free speech here is a nightmare - and this is on a predominantly female site. The clue is in the name.

DetroitMotorCity · 05/11/2019 00:37

I say fuck it. Let them ban us all and see how much $$$ the tra's bring into the site. They clearly have no respect for the women that made mumsnet a success.

theflushedzebra · 05/11/2019 00:36

I did exactly the same on the AIBU gender neutral toilets thread earlier today, Driech - I realised Edward Lord (propagator of gender neutral toilets throughout the city of London) was in fact a "they/them" and so rewrote my post.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 05/11/2019 00:36

It's not ok to add mental load to people who've got other stuff going on

Definitely. I have literally been up at least 10 times to my snotty, feverish toddler since she went to bed (I use the term loosely). I haven't got time for verbal games tonight. We should be able to choose to use words as they've traditionally been used in English and according to dictionary definition. That means a transwoman is a man and we can use pronouns according to biological sex. No-one here is telling anyone else what pronouns or terms to use, but women should get to decide how to speak for themselves (radical concept).

Driechdrizzle · 05/11/2019 00:34

I made a post today where I just used the pronouns I have been using for decades and which people have been using for centuries before me. Then I remembered we live in a new world now and the person I was referring to might have a special way they want to be talked about. So I toddled off round the internet until I found the bio they had written on social media. Sure enough the pronouns I was using weren't the ones they wanted. So I had to do a wholesale rewrite in order to avoid the report posts that might come my way.

The shorter version of this is: controlling our speech by threats of punishment, can make it look like we're on board with the whole ideology, even when we're trying to counter it. It's insidious.

ErrolTheDragon · 05/11/2019 00:10

That was just meant to be a couple of examples of unfairness in that post, testing, certainly not a full list!

DetroitMotorCity · 05/11/2019 00:06

It reminds me of a song by Dylan. I can't play the game no more i can't abide, by the stupid rules that get me sick inside. How long must we suffer such abuse, let me feel your love (mumsnet) one more time before we cut ya loose...

Original poster
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 04/11/2019 23:59

Why should we jump through hoops in order to make very simple points, even those of us who're technically capable of doing so? I hadn't actually realized that HQ had added yet another layer of bounce this ball on your nose like a good seal until Errol told me, and now that I do know I'm even more irritated. This is not reasonable. Over time even the most dedicated people will get worn down by the mental energy it takes to rewrite every comment to be doublespeak compliant and then they will give up if they haven't been banned first. It's shutting the conversation down by attrition.

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BeMoreMagdalen · 04/11/2019 23:52

Errol, your magnanimity is a credit to you. I think you may well be right - MN don't actively wish us ill, and MN as a whole has a reputation for linguistic fireworks.

But the effects of being the tool of bullies aren't any different if you don't mean any harm yourself. There comes a point where decency must tell you it is way past time to say no to the bullies and support the women who you claim to support and who you are, frankly, in many cases, tormenting with your vacillating and cowardly behaviour. (Not you, Errol. I think you're definitely one of my favourites )

Creepster · 04/11/2019 23:52

MN is discriminating against women on the basis of sex and disability.

testing987654321 · 04/11/2019 23:50

Oh, and Mumsnet, if you want to delete me for suggesting that it is ridiculous to pretend people can change sex then go ahead.

Get your forums full of people who prefer to play pretend mummy, not us real ones.

testing987654321 · 04/11/2019 23:47

it's not ok for autistic women to have to play the game or shut up.

I think we are going down a dangerous route suggesting that only autistic people can't cope with the ridiculous doublethink that accompanies pretending people can change sex.

Original poster
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 04/11/2019 23:46

If that's not their intention then the special rules for naughty feminists need rewriting.

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ErrolTheDragon · 04/11/2019 23:43

MNHQ seem to want to leave us with no way to make a distinction between ourselves and males

I don't believe they want to do that - I guess they've been relying on our ingenuity and creative writing skills. But while some of us can deal with that, not everyone can. It's not ok to add mental load to people who've got other stuff going on, it's not ok for autistic women to have to play the game or shut up.

Original poster
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 04/11/2019 23:28

MNHQ seem to want to leave us with no way to make a distinction between ourselves and males who would like to be female other than by creating the most tortured sentence structure imaginable, turning widdershins 3 times, and praying that maybe we won't be deleted this time.

This is, frankly, outrageous, especially on a site that revolves around how babby is formed. How are people even meant to make babies if there's no way to indicate the kind of person that we'd need to find in order to make one with?

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littlbrowndog · 04/11/2019 23:22

Keep on barracker keep on

You give me faith and belief.

Keep on