Oh look, it's those guidelines making no sense whatsoever again!

flushed no but I used to post in brexit a lot if you read the threads then i'd be similar. I NC but names are all alike - I'm the one that bangs on about brexit medication shortages which my partner is currently experiencing. Also posted here once or twice about placenta theory in relation to immune systems and how the impact of taking hormones hasnt been considered much. There's considerable difference between the sexes in terms of immune systems but we still don't understand them. (DP has an immune system based illness which is considered extremely rare so I spend a lot of time explaining immune sytems to doctors.)

lang and co dw I won't be a regular I just popped in as the thread was in active.

Yes, it is always so fascinating to observe the women here who are often repeatedly asking the mods not to delete the most obvious MRA/TRA trollery because we would much rather those that turn up to FWR based on our reputation as a nest of transphobia actually see for themselves the cacophony of frothing, disingenuous, bad faith, faux naive bullshit that passes for transactivism whenever it bumps up against no character limit and not quite such an easy ride in getting women to shut up. When we are allowed to answer. We didn't ask for T*rf to be banned, we haven't made any demands except to be able to acknowledge material reality and not be coerced into lying.

Because pp's asked when i responded to the creator of that thread lang?

Right. So you commented, they asked, you responded. So let's say that - single, very small - aspect of an important thread about many issues has now been adequately addressed, shall we? The thread is about a lot more than that. I gave you an inexhaustive list just above there.

Let's all report each other in a battle of who can get each other deleted the most, eh?

Or, we could have a discussion.

The least Mumsnet can do is give us some information to help figure a way forward. And further to that we need dialogue and polls of the user base to agree to new guidelines
Back to the discussion, I agree with this post by genderfree. The guidelines are useless now, all the goalposts are constantly moving.
As FWR needs its own rules and regulations imo the only fair and just thing is that MNHQ tell users what the rule are. And the moderators need to follow them

flushed feel free to try I think my post on page one or two could get deleted.

Talk about missing the point.

I recognise your posting style, did you used to be bespin?

flushed feel free to try I think my post on page one or two could get deleted.

So 'goady' in the context of this thread topic means what exactly? I mean, I've seen some pretty fucking goady threads started this past week and allowed to.m stand, threads that were absolutely designed to upset, wind up and piss the women here off. They had no constructive element, they were just jabs (goads).

But you seem to be suggesting that wanting to discuss a contentious issue from a feminist perspective is a goady thread, and I submit that you are basically telling the women here to shut about the really egregious elements of misogyny and patriarchy because to speak about them too bluntly is 'goady'. So you've essentially told us not to poke the bear, to speak soothing, naice words instead, and that is just leveraging female socialization and you can go whistle, tbh.

They obviously have some kind of goal in mind. But what is it?

I think the goal is to monitize the conflict without getting sued again.

It wasn't goady. It was an important thread about breast binding being shown on a major CBBC show. One term (self harm) seemed to be at issue here - and whilst using that term may be arguable for some, ad bear discussion, it was not worthy of deletion of the whole thread.

I feel your posts belittling the harm that breast binding does is goady, personally. But I doubt I'd be able to get your posts deleted.

Because pp's asked when i responded to the creator of that thread lang? It's a recent example of a deletion, posters felt it was unjustified and I did not given the circumstances and the nature of that thread. I felt it was goady. I've explained why I think its understandable to be goady but how imo that feeds into a continuing cycle of deletions.

I think she meant some posters figure they'd rather be hung for a sheep than a lamb.

Why the sudden concentration on a single deletion Hazardd? Let's not derail it to be about breast binding for several pages.

It's about opaque rules being applied inconsistently.

It's about putting the interests of people who hate the site before the site's content creators.

It's about the tone taken by staffers towards members.

It's about giving no leeway to women in exigent circumstances.

It's about allowing frank commentary by one side of a political divide and limiting the other so much that its perspective can't be accurately expressed.

It's about the lack of respect given to longstanding members.

It's about acting as proxy agents for coercive control.

It's about holding one board to a higher standard than all other boards.

It's not about breast binding. That's just one small manifestation of a collection of problems.

And then posters feel they can't say anything so fuck it and go click bait the reporters with a thread.

What do you mean by that?

The big question is how far Mumsnet will capitulate to transactivists who are lobbying their advertisers.

Because no capitulation will be enough - they want ALL the discussion stopped.

This FT article describes the Flora capitulation very well. www.ft.com/content/26475a0e-efa9-11e9-bfa4-b25f11f42901

So, are Mumsnet prepared to be the ones who capitulate to the TRAs, or will they stand firm and protect freedom to discuss issues and law changes that affect us? At the moment, Justine is saying the latter, but the moderators are doing the former.

Self harm is mostly done as a release, to make someone feel better. The activity may be harmful and cause pain, but actually the goal isn't the pain, the goal is the feeling better. The young people that I have helped move past it eventually found healthier ways to feel better. Binding falls extremely well into that category of activity.

flushed i agree the word transphobia gets chucked about like confetti, it's beyond over used and perhaps everyone is becoming immune to it. But should that mean the debate here needs to spiral into sensalional, goady threads? Because fuck it they are calling you lot names anyway? It's understandable reaction tbh but hq will delete. And then posters feel they can't say anything so fuck it and go click bait the reporters with a thread. It gets deleted. Posters feel the can't say anything or have an opinion so they think fuck it....

It's a bit of a cycle.

So the language is ok when describing some mental health conditions (anorexia) but not others (gender dysphoria) ?

But MN shouldn't have to delete the comment unless lobbied by anorexics, as they are currently being lobbied by tras.

So - is mumsnet a site which should just act on offensiveness when aggressively lobbied? Or is it a site that values itself on free speech and discussion? And applies moderation guidelines consistently and fairly.

If somebody objects to the terms 'self harm' they can come on here and discuss why.

People might described smoking as an act of self harm - should smokers or tobacco companies be able to lobby mumsnet and get the posts, and even the whole threads deleted?