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Original poster

Oh look, it's those guidelines making no sense whatsoever again!

691 replies

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 04/11/2019 17:09

So, I got an email about a comment in which I said that I wanted to know why genderists keep comparing trans identified males to black women and lesbians being deleted. I think this is absolutely barmy, and have said so to HQ. I'm also baffled as to how this breaks any guidelines and thought perhaps it was time for us as a group to revisit the guidelines and explain once more to MNHQ why they're not working.

What's actually happening here is the the obsessive trans activists who monitor this site are attempting to pick off posters one by one. We lost Orchid last week, and she was just the most recent of many. I'm not sure in MNHQ realize that's happening and welcome it or if it's somehow escaped their notice, but it's a pretty messed up thing for them to be allowing to happen to their users, in my opinion. Are they going to allow this to continue until the only commenters left in this forum are the TRAs who want the entire site shut down?

I know the people who despise the women here would very much like this to all happen under the radar, and that's exactly why I'm not allowing it to play out that way.

OP posts:
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MyMajesty · 09/11/2019 00:43

I am willing to bet that absolutely none of the women here go to trans forums and tell men off for transwomaning wrongly. Getting them suspended for using uncivil tones towards women etc etc.

Absolutely I'm sure they don't. And if they tried, no notice would be taken of them.

Totally brilliant post, TalkingintheDark!

Creepster · 09/11/2019 00:33

Surely it is obvious to everyone by now that MNHQ do not "walk their talk".

OvaHere · 09/11/2019 00:32

Wow Talking amazing post. Thank you

theflushedzebra · 09/11/2019 00:23

The email to me, where I quoted a post, and the quoted post was put in the email as the thing that broke guideline, was signed MNHQ.

The quote was fairly innocuous - I'm guessing deleted for "generalisation".

However, when these rules were introduced, we were assured that we wouldn't get strikes for quoting posts. Yet I got a strike.

littlbrowndog · 09/11/2019 00:23

Best post ever talking in the dark.

Creepster · 09/11/2019 00:09

That's interesting. I just assumed the snotty ones signed MNHQ were from either Justine or a supervisor that the mod had kicked the can on to.

Original poster
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 08/11/2019 23:58

Another point if MNHQ are still reading. The tone of messages received by users when signed MNHQ rather than Hebe or Michael or whatever is noticeably more nasty than when from a person who actually signs their name (I will admit that I responded in a similarly unfriendly way this time, because I was so annoyed). I'm not sure if this is because in those cases the mod team know full well that the decision they're making isn't fair and is likely to upset the user, or if it's baby mods who're still learning to process not using their own names yet, but if it's the latter I'd really suggest having the training wheels part of the process of onboarding new people happen on something other than FWR or AIBU, because not only is that likely to upset users, it's really not fair to the baby mods either to throw them in at the deep end, especially on evenings and weekends when there's likely to be a lack of more experienced people to appeal to for support.

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FleetsumNJetsum · 08/11/2019 23:49

Another one belatedly thanking Talking for an amazing post, in which there was no hate. Just truth.

ZIGGY7 · 08/11/2019 23:06

Well said @TalkingintheDark. This ‘both sides’ crap needs to be called out. Also, breast binding is self-harm. Any mother of daughters, or a teacher (I am both) has witnessed the rise of self-harm in girls. Let’s stick to material reality and focus on the genuinely oppressed, rather than those with narcissistic personality disorders who are destroying women’s hard won rights.

BadgertheBodger · 08/11/2019 22:23

Talking BRAVA and thank you. Very clear, concise, readable and true. Perhaps someone should tell our wokeademic darlings

NotBadConsidering · 08/11/2019 22:19

Just adding my belated 👏👏👏 to TalkingintheDark for that amazing post.

EmpressLesbianInChair · 08/11/2019 22:16

Since we're all sharing, what I'm expecting out of all this is that I'll get a message letting me know that as I don't seem happy with how things are being run this clearly isn't the place for me and it's time for me to "go well", and that I'll then find myself unable to log in because I've been banned

Yes, we’re pretty clear now on what ‘go well’ means. Sad

Original poster
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 08/11/2019 22:15

I have never once tried to interfere with what happens on any trans forum, because people have the right to speak even if I think they're wrong.

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testing987654321 · 08/11/2019 22:11

MNHQ should ponder why they are having to think so carefully about how women speak about men on this site.

I am willing to bet that absolutely none of the women here go to trans forums and tell men off for transwomaning wrongly. Getting them suspended for using uncivil tones towards women etc etc.

Women only talk about this issue once it starts affecting them.

Original poster
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 08/11/2019 22:10

As rancourous as I may seem sadness is my main takeaway too. MNHQ seem to have decided to capitulate, and that's profoundly sad (and at odds with Justine's public position, which was a far more admirable one).

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Driechdrizzle · 08/11/2019 22:09

Agree ProdigalKitten, that's why it is so sad.

Women are literally being written out of the picture, our material and physical reality replaced with a thought in some men's heads. And lots of women are complacent and unbothered about this.

LangCleg · 08/11/2019 22:07

Since we're all sharing, what I'm expecting out of all this is that I'll get a message letting me know that as I don't seem happy with how things are being run this clearly isn't the place for me and it's time for me to "go well", and that I'll then find myself unable to log in because I've been banned

I truly hope this does not happen.

I think Talking's post is entirely unanswerable - even with the usual fobbing off - and so the most likely response is... well, no response. Sorry, MNHQ. I say it with sadness rather than rancour. But I honestly don't expect better.

Datun · 08/11/2019 22:06

Driechdrizzle

Sorry, I crossposted with you a little there.

Datun · 08/11/2019 22:05

And do hope that HQ understand that being able to name our category as women and our oppressors as men, trans or not, is not the slightest bit illegal.

OccasionalKite · 08/11/2019 22:04

Incisively clear and poignant post by TalkingintheDark Fri 08-Nov-19 17:45:29.

Thank you, Talking.

Original poster
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 08/11/2019 22:04

This issue sadly is probably the biggest test Justine has ever had to face over her commitment to free speech.

And that's because this is the greatest assault on women's ability to speak in our lifetimes.

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Driechdrizzle · 08/11/2019 22:00

This issue sadly is probably the biggest test Justine has ever had to face over her commitment to free speech.

My advice to Mumsnet would be that they should base their guidelines for FWR on the law and their rules for the rest of the site. There are no laws (yet) against so-called "misgendering" or speaking the truth about biological sex. At the moment they are trying to cater to both sides and making neither happy. The trans activists want the women here silenced, punished (and probably prosecuted), the women here want to be able to speak the truth about our lives, our sex and the oppression we and all women face from men.

I feel sorry for Mumsnet that they've been put in this position, but it's worth remembering that after they've come for us, they'll be going after all the other women next. It's not going to stop no matter how much the TRAs are appeased and catered to.

GrinitchSpinach · 08/11/2019 21:58

Late to the party but can't help adding a BRAVISSIMA for Talking. I've saved a copy, too.

The monitors may get this woman's speech deleted here, but they don't understand how each of these deletions redoubles our determination to share the forbidden words with our mothers, sisters, aunts, nieces, friends and coworkers. Mums at the school gate; dental hygienists; hairdressers; nursery workers; house cleaners; shop assistants; SAHMS and attorneys; teachers and doctors; bankers and babysitters. We talk to each other, and men think so little of us that they can't even hear the low buzz of sedition. Those clucking tongues at which our monitors sneer will pass the word on through the women's networks that have always existed.

Original poster
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 08/11/2019 21:44

Since we're all sharing, what I'm expecting out of all this is that I'll get a message letting me know that as I don't seem happy with how things are being run this clearly isn't the place for me and it's time for me to "go well", and that I'll then find myself unable to log in because I've been banned. The reason I expect that is because it's happened to others. Will the mod team address that sort of blatantly contemptuous, passive aggressive way of interacting with users in their awaited response? I'm not counting on it but it would be nice, and indeed appropriate.

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LangCleg · 08/11/2019 21:36

Over to you then, Michael.