Oh look, it's those guidelines making no sense whatsoever again!

Fingers crossed the deleting of the reference thread was an over zealous weekend mod, and MNHQ will reinstate it, with any necessary deletions as they would for any troll hunting type posts.

Unless deleting whole threads is how FWR will be quietly closed down.

Including Janes advice to parents of dysphoric children, and rebuttals of Fracks "research" supporting the affirmation/medicalisation of children

I think this is what annoys me the most. People like @JanesKettle are pouring a great deal of personal experience, heart and soul into posting on threads like that, and to just pull the thread after being manipulated is incredibly disrespectful.

Just to add to the throng saying what a great post talking.

A friend had been talking about how 'trans people are marginalised etc' and likened it to the experiences of black women after having read a recent book around the subject (I can't remember its name, possibly Biassed?). I was agog she could be so dismissive when I know how
much of a rad type feminist and anti gender stereotypes she is. And she simply not see the opposite link. I wanted to say all the things in talkings post but was too astounded (and at the time quite hypothyroid so not able to argue effectively).

Will save for the next time we have the chat.

No worries pom, I didn't want anyone thinking I was accusing you of controlling the mods

@PencilsInSpace I've been meaning to say this for ages, but I really appreciate the time and thought you put into your posts. They help me understand the relevant issues, they are balanced and comprehensive, cut through the crap and get to the points which can sometimes get lost. Please keep posting!

I guess deleting the reference thread was the weekend mods response to this thread. I feel well and truly put in my place.

Hi Tinsel - sorry if that crossed over your post.

Talking's post was incredible.

Just trying to encourage those readers out of the shadows to support this board in the light of what's happened, in particular, with that thread.

What I'm blown away by, both on that deleted thread and others, is women's ability to counter every TRA post with evidence-based rational discussion.

Not that I didn't know it already, but the real-time witnessing of proper discussion and work to do so.

To see it erased by a complaint.

Shocking.

Women. Stand Up.

That was replying to Empress!

Something like that feels almost like coercive control of the mods, when it's so blatant.

Hey lovely lurkers.

Your posts are important right now.

I remember a couple of years ago, finally braving it out to make a post after reading and reading.

Once you've got one out there, it's not as difficult as you thought it was!

And lots of other lurkers will see your post and go 'oooh', another one!

I remember almost physically 'ducking' when I pressed 'post' on my first one on this board!

It gets better! And those who have departed, or who aren't posting as much as they used to , many will love to see your voices joining them.

It's looking like we need to focus on saving and archiving threads with important information on. It's a good thing so many posters have already saved TalkingInTheDark's magnificent post - that would be a huge loss, and now the TRAs know what they need to do to get threads deleted it would be all too easy to lose it.

So, MNHQ - one poster speculating on the OP in the last page of a very LONG thread, full of extremely well thought out responses - that posters had taken time and thought to post, having read the refs that OP posted - is enough to delete the whole thread?

That is really lame. Lame. You could have just deleted the few speculative posts.

Now all a TRA has to do when they don't like a thread is speculate on the OP's rl identity then? And bang, the thread with all the well thought arguments against medicalising children is gone.

Wow, Frack didn't have to start that thread. Nobody asked her/him to do so. The requests have always been to ask for references on threads where discussions are happening. The way it turned out was entirely predictable though.

I wonder who will come to school the naughty mummies next. They won't be able to resist.

I'm also annoyed that the Reference thread was deleted. It was one of the most informative ones we've had in a long time but then was clearly manipulated into deletion because it didn't go the OP's way.

I'm extremely pissed off that @MNHQ deleted the reference thread.

I took the time to read those studies (what I could of them) and work out for myself whether they supported the position of those who advocate for the transing of children*. Because I don't want to be in an echo chamber, I do want to properly listen and understand the counter-arguments against my own position. I want proper, grown up, evidence based discussion of all the issues. I want to find all the holes in everyone's argument, including my own. We are talking about the long term health, wellbeing and safeguarding of children so we can't afford anything less than this.

There was no 'doxxing', just a mysterious new poster 'speculating'. It would have been easy to just delete those posts, ban the poster, post a warning, lock the thread or do a combination of these. You didn't have to destroy the whole thing.

I don't give a shit who Frack is, although I am tempted to speculate now, after watching this astonishing display of string-pulling.

*no, they didn't.

A lot of good information was lost on that deleted thread. Including Janes advice to parents of dysphoric children, and rebuttals of "Fracks* "research" supporting the affirmation/medicalisation of children.

Is it generally MN policy to pull a whole thread if one or two posts go off-topic (veering towards breaking guidelines) despite others trying to pull the conversation back on track? I'm not sure why just those posts don't get deleted?

I know some AIBU etc threads turn into proper unpleasant bunfights with lots of posters piling on, and get pulled, but all i saw earlier was one, perhaps two, unnecessarily speculatory posts with others trying to steer discussion away from that.

It was an informative, and I thought fairly balanced, thread before that.

Also - you need to respond to this @MNHQ.

That I don't know. We need a Parliamentary Advisor! Anyone got one?!

Talking your post made me punch the air and also cry. It is utterly brilliant and you are wonderful.

I love the idea about sending this to our MPs with your permission.

Talking I got goosebumps reading that.

That's a great idea Jux. Do you reckon there's any point doing it pre-election now though?

Maybe, if Talking doesn't mind, we could ask everyone who posts on FWR to send her post as a letter to their MP? That way, many MPs get that at the same time. Sure, some will get more than one letter but as they're from different constituents the message will be all the stronger.

We do need to appear as more than "a few women on MN".

Late to the party but what Talking said. Every single amazing word of it

Come on @MNHQ, that post alone deserves a proper, considered response.

Found this thread because of seeing TalkingintheDark's amazing post.

This is a phenomenal thread and I am so in awe of the eloquence of the women here who manage to post my confused and jumbled thoughts in such a coherent way. to you all.