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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Simon Fanshawe calls for calm

87 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 04/11/2019 08:02

“There’s been an absolute sleight of hand and it’s got even worse with LGBTQIA Plus, and I don’t know if the joke works on paper, but I always say that, you know, they’ve turned one of the great passions of my life, which is fighting for lesbian and gay equality, into a slightly secure password on the internet."

www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,cofounder-of-stonewall-calls-for-calm_14648.htm?

OP posts:
FadingStar · 04/11/2019 14:26

I fully expect to get a strike and then I shall rein it in for a bit. 🤐

ScapaFlo · 04/11/2019 14:23

Blimey could you imagine saying what FadingStar just said even six months ago? Puulllll!

FadingStar · 04/11/2019 14:20

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Driechdrizzle · 04/11/2019 14:04

"all under the radar on closed FB or WA groups and all braced for the day a transwoman turns up"

In the same way as lesbians used to meet in the past, secretly and discretely. How awful to have to continually live with the fear that a male will try to muscle their way in to private lesbian space.

realitycalling · 04/11/2019 13:11

A brilliant article and interesting insights thatdamnwoman . Thank you.

Well worth printing that out and giving to candidates seeking our votes.

NonnyMouse1337 · 04/11/2019 13:02

It's definitely taken me by surprise. I'm 36 and I didn't think all the hard won rights by women before me would be so quickly rolled back!!

I still can't comprehend those women who are eager to throw away the rights and protections that belong to every woman for their own personal gain.

I'm very glad that we still have women like you around though, to learn about what's happened in the decades before us and roll up our sleeves so we can carry on the fight for those who will come after.

This board has been a great resource for women to share their experiences and wisdom with others. :)

TanteRose · 04/11/2019 12:58

The article by Simon Fanshawe is excellent and should be lauded in other mainstream media.

The posts by thatdamnwomen are extremely enlightening- thank you! Flowers

thatdamnwoman · 04/11/2019 12:37

Yes, absolutely, and I'm already a signed up and paid up member and look forward to attending a conference or event where I can meet more of my tribe.

I do think the tide is turning and I'm proud that it's here in the UK that we may be able to say no to the transactivist's demands. Canada, New Zealand, Ireland and parts of the US have thrown not just lesbians but women's rights under the bus. I'm close to retirement age and I can't tell you how depressing it is to be out fighting for fundamental women's rights again. I thought we'd got that done.

I hope that one day we can start to hold lesbian festivals, women's festivals, women's music events, women's nights etc again, as we used to, without the ever-present dread of being picketed or invaded by men.

NonnyMouse1337 · 04/11/2019 12:35

Thank you thatdamnwoman for giving us an insight into what's been going on in Stonewall over the past decade or so.
Very infuriating how trans and queer ideology has been creeping in and pushing out ordinary lesbians and other GC people.
It would explain a lot for the mess we see now. To an outsider it seems like all of this appeared out if nowhere, but clearly it's been brewing for quite some time.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/11/2019 12:31

Better to waste 3 years than to actually produce something damaging. The PhD supervisors were covering their own arses.

Floisme · 04/11/2019 12:27

Thank you for your posts thatdamnwoman - compelling and depressing.
Are you any more optimistic about the LGB Alliance?

thatdamnwoman · 04/11/2019 12:21

I suppose it will seem that way in retrospect, now we have a clear view of what was going on. All we knew at the time was that 'our' organisation was saying we needed to accept men who said they were women as women and that all our clever, more academic, more important lesbian leaders in Stonewall and other groups were just going along with it and expected us to do so too.

I think it's had a massively negative effect on lesbian women's confidence, unity and general well-being. As if we weren't second-class citizens anyway – and now the very organisations that were set up to support us and fight for us have betrayed us. So many women's centres, rape crisis centres, lesbian groups just rolled over and let men in.

There have been many, many times when I've wondered if I'm going mad because other lesbians who I thought were solid have kow-towed to transactivism and sought to persuade me that I'm the one with the problem. Fortunately now, partly thanks to this forum, GC lesbians are able to contact each other and support each other in the fight back and it doesn't seem so lonely. All the old local institutions where lesbians used to gather have gone. The lesbian-run cafe, the women's centre, the lesbian night at the local gay bar all gone because the T and Q folk muscled in and women fled. There are still lesbian walks and cafe nights and picnics and days out and gatherings, but all under the radar on closed FB or WA groups and all braced for the day a transwoman turns up.

allmywhat · 04/11/2019 12:20

Oh my god that PhD story.

Is it definitely too late to bring a complaint to the university about that man's supervisors and their ethics? Maybe they could take down the entire Gender Studies department.

OvaHere · 04/11/2019 11:55

Wow thatdamnwomen that's horrifying.

thatdamnwoman · 04/11/2019 11:48

ChateauRose, I know two lesbians who resigned from their regional Stonewall committee over the trans issue more than a decade ago. There was a transwoman on their regional committee long, long before the T was formally added to the LGB. There was also a non-binary man doing a PhD in gender studies who came to meetings and secretly recorded proceedings with the knowledge of the committee chair but not the ordinary committee members.

When my lesbian friends asked questions about what these trans and queer individuals were doing on an LGB committee they were talked down to and persuaded that they were being petty and unkind by the lesbians who chaired the committee and headed up the regional branch of Stonewall at that time. They received no support from the gay men on their committee and things were made so uncomfortable for them (in retrospect they were clearly gaslighted) that they resigned. They were both ordinary women and most of the committee was made up of academics and those working in public policy sectors and so on – ie, being on the Stonewall committee was a career move.

The non-binary gender studies student later gave a public lecture at at least one of the local universities in which he quoted the two lesbians questioning what T and queer people had to do with LGB issues and he used this to ridicule them and illustrate how lesbians were attempting to block the advance of trans and queer ideology.

The two lesbians he quoted were easily identifiable by anyone who cared to look a list of committee members. They only knew about the lecture and the secret recording when a someone who'd attended the lecture worked out who they were and contacted them to warn them what was going on.

They complained to the Stonewall committee: the chair just shrugged. So then they complained to his PhD supervisors who pleaded with them not to put in a formal complaint to the university because then he would have wasted three years of his life on his PhD. At that time none of us had any idea how complicit Gender Studies academics were in promoting trans and queer ideology. The irony of it is that the two Cardiff University academics who supported the secret recording and the use of unauthorised quotes in a public lecture presented as lesbians.

Transgender activists have been busy in Stonewall for a very long time. It has been a no-go area for GC lesbians for more than a decade. We've been telling people about it but we're only everyday lesbians, we're not academics, we're not people of influence and we've never counted. Lesbians have been in the majority at Stonewall meetings over the years, we've made the tea, we've kept lesbian events and social circles and support groups going – but we've been treated with total disdain by the women who've been fronting the organisation for years. Don't imagine that Ruth Hunt was the first or only Stonewall woman to treat fellow lesbians like dirt.

I don't want anyone to imagine for one minute that it's just been men and trans ideologists who have sold lesbians down the river. There are dozens, hundreds probably, of high-profile, influential lesbians who have been complicit – most of them, I suspect, because they saw being woke as being more helpful to their careers than being GC.

Sorry to write at such length, but some of us have been dealing with this shit for years. There'll be loads of other lesbians all over the country who will tell you similar stories of being put down, ridiculed and patronised by the very people we thought were our allies.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 04/11/2019 11:47

That is a fabulous piece of writing.

AnyOldPrion · 04/11/2019 11:44

“I particularly like that he makes clear it was not about 'trans' people, that they were not involved at the beginning but tagged on later.”

The attempts to revise history are deeply frustrating to me as I don’t know as much about any of these movements as I would like to.

So the claims are made and seem unlikely (trans politics was not even on the radar back then and that I am
sure of) but I recall the changing attitudes SF mentions.

It’s good to see those claims of having been integral refuted by someone that was there. Even lesbians were not involved, but were persuaded to join in. So were not even the first group Stonewall called to for help.

Nappyvalley15 · 04/11/2019 11:40

Fantastic article. Hope it gets widely circulated.

breakfastpizza · 04/11/2019 10:55

Well done, Simon.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/11/2019 10:47

Excellent piece. Let's hope he gets listened to.
I'm sure he's very much aware he may get listened to with more respect than the women who've been saying the same things - that's not his fault.

3timeslucky · 04/11/2019 10:45

Excellent article. Great clarity and insight. Thanks for posting.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 04/11/2019 10:43

It is a good interview from someone who was involved in Stonewall from the start and understands what it was set up for.

I particularly like that he makes clear it was not about 'trans' people, that they were not involved at the beginning but tagged on later.

This is an important point given the habit of revising historical facts prevalent amongst trans privilege activists.

FilthyBiscuit · 04/11/2019 10:35

I wish I had the courage to share this to all my woke friends, how could they possibly disagree with such a reasonable argument. Simon Fanshaw played the long game with Stonewall and will do the same here. Fantastic article.

Silencedwitness · 04/11/2019 10:34

I was just coming on to post this article. It’s absolutely brilliant. Well thought out, calm and above all honest.

Herocomplex · 04/11/2019 10:30

It’s a category error anyway, T isn’t about sexuality. But I understand why groups might feel solidarity.

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