BBC strictly

And just because it makes me smile, here is a male-male routine, mostly solo jazz but with a little partnered Lindy Hop at 3.40ish, including an ‘air step’ where the bigger guy, Remy, is the ‘flyer’ and the smaller chap, Vincenzo is the ‘base’ (most of the lift type steps in the swing canon are momentum based, so not dependent on upper body strength)

And here is the historical reference - AL Minns and Leon James (again, mostly solo but partnered from 2.33ish)

This footage was filmed in 61 so Al and Leon were past their dance heyday (Leon won the Harvest Moon Ball contest in 35, but his birth date seems to be unknown) still amazing dancers, still doing lifts!

Interestingly, Johannes has addressed some of our thoughts in his most prominent press quote about the dance:

‘To be able to dance with a friend I respect and adore is joyous. There's bromance galore between us, but there were no male and female roles, just free movement. It was beautiful, classy and elegant.’

Perhaps I am reading too much into this but I get the impression that he is keen to make the point that same sex dancing isn’t necessarily related to sexuality* and that same sex dancing doesn’t mean that traditional male and female dance roles no longer exist.

My dance world (Swing, so Lindy Hop, Balboa, Collegiate and St Louis Shag, Jazz roots and Charleston) has never been standardised for competition or medals, so is a lot more free. It also has a history of same-sex dancing, in part due to world war 2.

There is a swing festival in Denmark next year that has an almost entirely female teacher line-up - funnily enough it seems like they’ve been criticised for not having an inclusive enough name 😒

www.leadingladiesswingfestival.dk/index.html

*same sex couples wanting to learn together/events organised by and for the gay community being exceptions

Well, the question I have, if a celebrity was paired with a professional of the same sex, what, apart from ticking a visibility box, is the thought process?
If the celebrity is gay then are we suggesting that an activity entirely unrelated to who they are sexually attracted to needs to reflect who they are sexually attracted to? What are the assumptions there? Do we really think women are paired with Anton or Johannes or Kevin because they're sexually attracted to men? And vice versa for Male celebrities?

I love dance, and very much enjoy that it's an art form.which can challenge conventions. But while I enjoy being challenged, sometimes I think the assumptions behind things need to be examined. I'm glad Susan whatsherface wanted a male partner - because she understood the idea was to dance with him, not pick someone from her potential dating pool.

It's all well and good two men, or two women, performing a dance in which there aren't strict male and female roles and it's just two dancers performing, but Strictly is about ballroom and latin dances which do have male and female roles.

It's not just a show about dancing, it's about specific dances and contestants are judged based on what steps those dances involve. I can't see how it would be fair to all the other contestants to have one person performing in a completely different style to the rest of them. The couple's choice dance is the closest Strictly gets to dances without those roles.

Having said all that, I'd probably watch a same-sex partnership (or a mixture), non-ballroom, dance based show like Strictly. I do tend to enjoy the couple's choice dances (though they can be gimmicky). But it's not the same, is it? And that's ok.

I still smile when I remember Susan's Morecambe and Wise quickstep.

Not butch but lesbian - Susan Calman didn’t want a female partner when she was on.

I was going to say - what does sexuality matter, they're dancing, not having sex, but then I remembered that's not necessarily the case on Strictly and DOI.

I'm confident seeing H from Steps ice skating with another bloke will not be twinge provoking.

There won't be many females, butch or otherwise, who will be able to lift another female the way a male can, so they're at an immediate disadvantage from the outset, in dances like the salsa and American smooth, when it comes to being fairly judged.

I'm struggling to think of a butch lesbian celebrity who might end up on Strictly!

Indeed. And doesn't that tell its own tale?

I'm struggling to think of a butch lesbian celebrity who might end up on Strictly!

I must have been watching Strictly with my eyes closed because I don't know what the OP is referring to.

Graziano and Johannes partnered each other in the pros dance accompanying Emile Sande in the results show. They looked good together!

If I thought that the introduction of same sex dancing on Strictly was going to do anything other than result in fewer women dancing, I'd be all for it. But be honest everyone: what are the chances of a butch lesbian celebrity being partnered with a female pro? Next to none.

I went to Dancing With Hilda for a while when I had a brief spell living in London. It was a women-only social ballroom dancing group, and I loved it.

I must have been watching Strictly with my eyes closed because I don't know what the OP is referring to. I thought it was going to be about the judges keeping Mike in week after week while despatching the women.

I loved the clip of the Canadian women.

Back in my "yoof" I went out with a ballroom dancing teacher and she taught me to dance (must have been a real effort).
I enjoy watching the pro dancers and the two guys dancing together were brilliant, absolutely no reason why two women couldn't do the same thing.
Both my DW and me think Mike Bushell is rubbish, he has no grace, his posture is shocking, he basically lacks finesse.
Karim's quickstep was on a totally different level, his partner is certainly a brilliant teacher.

I wonder if as a contestant you will be given a choice. If you were a straight celeb female and the BBC wanted to pair you with another female. Or straight male celeb with another man. Would they be able to say no without being turfed off the programme. Or will it be just the gay celebs that will be dancing in same sex partnerships?

It just makes me want to watch Blades of Glory.

I don't see how you could fairly judge same-sex couples alongside mixed-sex couples.

I think one issue is wether the net effect will be to reduce the number of women dancers on the show over a series, can't really judge on a one off

In terms of competitive dancing, I heard that there was a pushback agaisnt having gay male couples in the standard mixed sex class, becuase it was felt that the male power, strength and stamina would give those couples unfair advantage

I don't mind the idea of same sex couples as long as they are judged to exactly the same criteria as mixed sex couples.ie, in ballroom, the female dancer has to tilt her head and bend her back at that stupid angle.

No allowances made because it's two men or two women dancing together. The 'male' equivalent in a two woman combo should be expected to execute lifts to the same standards too.

Apparently H from Steps is going to dance with a man on Dancing in Ice, because he is gay. I agree, I don't see why it's relevant.

I'm just perplexed about why dancing partners have become equated with sexuality?
I like to watch opposite sex dance partnerships in the main show.
It's an interesting relent for group numbers but I just can't see how a same sex partnership could be judged fairly due to the different roles.

I'm all for same sex couples - but, like the OP, only if it doesn't mean fewer women.

Although frankly, I don't see the point. It's not as though they're excluding gay men and lesbians.

A teenaged friend of mine jokes that AJ and Saffron are a lesbian couple actually. AJ being the pretty baby butch, naturally.

Personally my twinges are reserved for Karen...

tinsel stop with the twinges

I have to take my twinges where I can find them these days Rufus, and it is unsisterly of you to twinge shame me.

DuMondeB
I love that video clip. People were so much less self conscious/image conscious and just having fun.
I wonder also if it was more common to have had some dance lessons at school (not ballet or anything formal, we did basic waltzes and Scottish reels and fooled around muchly) back then so it was much more natural to dance with your friends?

tinsel stop with the twinges

I keep snorting and dh keeps asking me if I’m ok...

Who were the two men dancing together so I can google for a clip to watch?

OP, In the informal and competitive-but-not-up-to-strictly-Pro-level partner dancing world, women dancing with women is uncommon but much, much more common than men with men. I'd say it was much more groundbreaking to show a male-male partner dance, so YABU. I'm a female lead and follow, and 99% of women are happy to dance with me in a lesson - when ive been in a lesson with a man learning to follow maybe 20% of the other men in the class refuse to practice with him. Nobody says it but it MUST be homophobic, it just must.

I love watching same sex couples dance - an all female or all male dance is very different to a male-female one.