Judicial review for woman prisoner alleging sexual assault by trans rapist in prison

I’m assuming prisoners share cells in women’s prison? Would a female prisoner ever be put in the same cell as a trans woman prisoner?!

poor Ruby seems to think that hormone treatment will result in them producing ova

if so they have obviously been catastrophically badly advised.

I appreciate the appeal to sympathy for regular transgendersespecially teens but are we seriously supposed to care that RAPISTS are offing themselves in prison? Good!

A modest proposal. (That means this is political satire/black comedy which could never be true, for our monitors).

How about we just assume that all prisoners in the female estate were born male?

That women born women have a 0% crime rate?

That any woman born female who somehow gets arrested should immediately be released, because she is obviously innocent?

Seriously. Fucking with statistics and evidence is not a game. Whatever your beliefs in female souls, you dont have a right to screw our ability to make sense of the world.

If you want to go there, instruction on your rights on page 45

Ruby on page 20 is interesting, especially the end paragraph.

A real advert for transfer to the female estate.

(Not.)

Page 4 here

Ruby on page 20 is interesting, especially the end paragraph.

Also followed on the next page by a first-time experience in women's prison which I would think is rather inviting for those in male prisons that wish to move.

The Halloween document repeatedly stresses the risk of suicide for transgender prisoners. We know that self harming is at around 46% for women prisoners. Do transwomen prisoners have a lower or higher risk, do we know?

Thank you LangCleg. That was an interesting read.

Ah ok paleblue.

I wish the article was clearer on that.

What a crazy, crazy situation.

If I remember correctly, prisoners with a GRC are automatically housed in the prison of their legal sex. They are not included in statistics about transgender prisoners because they do not go before the board which decides if someone may be transferred to the opposite sex’s estate. Therefore, as I understand it, the prisoners we are hearing about are only those without a GRC.

If it's true that 1 in 50 male prisoners are now identifying as trans, there is a more than sufficient population for a dedicated prison - this is as many as 1,600 inmates. I would suggest this would be the solution. Although, if no transfer to the female estate is available, would the number still be 1,600?!

It would be fascinating if there were a dedicated biological male trans prisoners only prison and suddenly the numbers went down wouldn't it? This could never happen of course.

In fact, I'm not clear if all the prisoners transferred have got one or not.

They haven't.

Sorry to be a pain, LangCleg, but I’m on the phone so can’t read that letter from the transsexual person. Do you have any way to link to it?

Page 4 here.

pdfkul.com/inside-time-october-2016-lockedpdf_5afecdcc8ead0ecd268b458d.html

The clarity about GRC in the original article matters to me because there is an explicit policy that trans prisoners with a GRC should be housed in the estate of their GRC sex. In fact, I'm not clear if all the prisoners transferred have got one or not. I don't believe that humans can either change sex or have one that isnt obvious from their bodies in over 99% of cases. So to me the existence of GRC sex vs biological sex is one of the reasons that prisoners without GRC might be considered for transfer.

I dont understand why the risk of making further offending more likely is not considered, obviously for the sake of the captive potential victims more than anything, but actually also for the prisoners themselves.

Downview isn't a Cat A prison though.

It's a Closed prison - women's prisons have a different system but Closed would be more like B/C.

The fact women have different category system just shows the fact that women prisoners are entirely different to men though.

Sorry to be a pain, LangCleg, but I’m on the phone so can’t read that letter from the transsexual person. Do you have any way to link to it?

Meghan Murphy referenced in her Toronto library talk an account that this is happening in Canada too.

if the Downview unit is for unmanageable (Cat A, sex offending, badly behaved) trans prisoners, why aren't they fully segregated from a potential pool of victims?

Once that's accepted then there's no need at all for the unit to be in a women's prison. It can be in a men's prison or elsewhere. At that point when an inquiring mind thinks about this it's clear that the only reason for locating in a women's prison is for validation of identity. In other words, the balance is: transwomen's validation of identity vs women's safety.

Does it really say in that article that the rules were changed, officially, on Halloween?

Here's the document. Implementation date 31st October 2019.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/825621/transgender-pf.pdf

Does it really say in that article that the rules were changed, officially, on Halloween?

The plan was to change the rules on the same day that European Human Rights laws would no longer apply, if the Government hadn’t fucked up once more. Not that I was in favour of Brexit, but this Government couldn’t organise a piss-up in a brewery.

And female politicians go around saying we should vote for the Tories as they help people to lift themselves up.

Not to mention most women in prison are not sent there for violent crimes whatsoever. Things like being behind on your council tax tho. Also let's not forget pregnant women and small babies. Trapped in a space with violent XY offenders.

Thanks Lang!

boatyard

Datun posted that, not me, but here you go:

Over 60% of women in contact with the criminal justice system have experienced domestic abuse.

53% of women in prison report having experienced emotional, physical or sexual abuse during childhood.

31% women in prison have spent time in local authority care as a child.

Women in custody are five times more likely to have a mental health concern than women in the general population.

www.womeninprison.org.uk/research/key-facts.php