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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Anti-terf Sady Doyle weighs in on the Always debate

63 replies

Karabair · 28/10/2019 00:46

Because attacking rad fems never gets old when you're a lib fem scrabbling around for copy -

www.damemagazine.com/2019/10/24/the-irony-of-the-terf-war-over-feminine-products/

Contains gems like these:

"equating womanhood with menstruation is a perilous route for any “feminist” to take"

"How does a woman who believes we can rewire our bodies on the basic level of sexual desire also believe that our essences are defined, for our entire lives, by the genitalia we had as two-year-olds?"

and writing radical feminism's obituary (where have we heard that one before?):

"So TERFism ambles and stumbles on as a sort of zombie feminism, devoid of vitality or usefulness, with its one vital spark of insight long since passed into the hands of the people it thinks are enemies. We can look on it in fear, or in pity, but there is no bringing this one back. We can only move forward, trying to create the future the TERFs almost grasped but were never quite brave enough to imagine."

It wouldn't really matter what a dishonest idiot like this writes, but these lib fems have been on the front line of pushing trans ideology for years. Major US feminist blogs worked together to isolate and stigmatise radical feminists since the early 2000s. Hoyden about Town, a lib fem Australian blog who were doing the same kind of work as the USers, coined the word "TERF". Almost all those blog writers were rewarded with book contracts, writing jobs in the mainstream media and a profile. The male-owned media has used women who are happy to betray other women and girls to promote the patriarchal trans agenda and they're still doing it.

What's funny is that Sady wrote this book in 2016:

'Trainwreck: The Women We Love to Hate, Mock, and Fear ... And Why.'

Maybe what distinguishes anti-woman lib fems is their stunning (!) lack of self-awareness or self-reflection.

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shearwater · 31/10/2019 04:39

I won't take anything seriously from someone who can't even spell a name properly? Sady?

quixote9 · 31/10/2019 04:34

I'm really sad about Sady Doyle. She did some excellent work back in the Gamergate days. She was aware of hyperlefty bullshit misogyny years ago. (Jeeebus. Has it been ten years?? I guess so.) She was one of my favourite authors then.

Then she fell down the trans rabbit hole. And now I see this blither. I don't know what happens to you in the US if you maintain respect for women's rights. Must be something really Handmaid-y because almost nobody does.

Karabair · 30/10/2019 07:32

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Karabair · 30/10/2019 07:29

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BickerinBrattle · 30/10/2019 03:32

We’ll never be able to eat doughnuts all day and still break women’s cycling records.

GetbusywiththeFizzee · 29/10/2019 21:11

Karabair 😁
I read your post then the RuPaul advert popped up - we’ll never be feted for wearing grotesque make up. We’ll never be able to wear dresses with erections daintily trying to poke their way through as the fragrant Emilia did.
Trans privilege.

Karabair · 29/10/2019 20:00

Peeing standing up without having to get half undressed to do it. That's a privilege.

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Karabair · 29/10/2019 19:58

We'll never have the privilege of a female penis or ladyballs. We'll never know the thrill of a feminine wet dream. MTF trans can grow big bushy girls' beards, we can't. We'll never know what it is like to have a big woman's body with long strong arms and an eves apple at our throats. We can't pass as men if the need was required, these women can.

Privilege works both ways.

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BeMoreMagdalen · 28/10/2019 23:02

We've had the discussions here - people have argued on FWR that women having hysterectomies, miscarriages and infertility are experiencing cis privileges because 'Transwomen' can never have those experiences that they desperately need for validation. That the main reason women should stop being so 'bio essentialist' is because they are cruelly rubbing salt in the wounds of 'transwomen' who will never have those chances. Heck, I'm pretty certain a black woman on Twitter faced down some deranged Trans privilege activist who told her that focusing so much on the FGM she suffered was really bumming out all the 'transwomen' who couldn't relate.

I think this is one of the weirdest features that captures even women into the cult - it's not that they consciously hate women, it's that they have turned us into life size fantasy dolls and the women involved often want to disconnect from those physical things which make 'transwomen' feel so excluded, too. Heck, I think so much of the internet is just another step along this massively unhealthy road to disconnecting us from the physical reality of our bodies, even on the most basic level.

littlbrowndog · 28/10/2019 22:35

Sady was responsible for one of my earliest peak trans moments, maybe a decade ago. She explained how she had learned and grown after a transwoman told her off for complaining about menstrual cramps, and she now realised she was extremely privileged to have menstrual cramps and she wouldn't complain about them any more.

Jeez how could a grown up women even think that. Just sooo much privilege where it’s possible that you think it’s ok that someone says that to you🤷‍♀️

GetbusywiththeFizzee · 28/10/2019 22:23

Apologies in advance but someone had to say it- Sady IS Shady

FWRLurker · 28/10/2019 22:05

I think that once one convinces oneself that they are a crusader for justice, protecting the most underprivileged innocent victims of all, nothing is going too far in terms of either personal capitulation and attack of their enemies.

InionEile · 28/10/2019 20:51

That’s interesting, allmywhat. She has been capitulating to bonkers TRA demands for a while now, clearly. What is she so afraid of? She has dealt with abuse and online stalking before as a feminist writer so it can’t be that she is scared of being doxxed by TRAs as many women are. I’m intrigued by how quickly and easily younger feminists are allowing themselves to be silenced for fear of being accused of being transphobic.

How convenient that the bullying of women by male-born people identifying as women has been so successful where men’s rights activists previously failed. Makes me wonder once again how closely linked the TRA and MRA movements might be...

allmywhat · 28/10/2019 20:38

Wow, Sady Doyle wrote that piece? I'm amazed. It is so entirely witless, which is not a word I would have ever used for her writing even when I disagree with her.

Sady was responsible for one of my earliest peak trans moments, maybe a decade ago. She explained how she had learned and grown after a transwoman told her off for complaining about menstrual cramps, and she now realised she was extremely privileged to have menstrual cramps and she wouldn't complain about them any more.

It was Doyle's capitulation more than the insane entitled demand that rang an alarm bell for me, but at the time all I did was lose some respect for her, and forget about it.

I guess the thing is that these professional feminists have been capitulating to ever-escalating insane demands, one at a time, like frogs being boiled, while the rest of us were mostly oblivious to it.

And now the mainstream has become aware of what they believe and they're not getting whatever "wow, you visionary, please lead the rest of us c*s women as we all follow the transwomen into the fabulous genderless promised land" reactions they feel they are due. Instead the reaction is more like "okay weirdo, you've been indoctrinated into a patriarchal cult... hahahaha FEMINIST? haha haha I can't breathe." It must be injurious to the ego.

Sarzy82 · 28/10/2019 19:03

Thanks for the welcome @MrGsFancyNewVagina! Yes I just read those rules, thanks.

RuffleCrow · 28/10/2019 18:06

What a load of bollocks. Just because a sentence has some grammatical structure to it, it doesn't give it meaning 'Sady'.

MrGsFancyNewVagina · 28/10/2019 17:57

Daft me. It’s right at the top if the feminist page.

www.mumsnet.com/info/trans-rights-moderation-policy

MrGsFancyNewVagina · 28/10/2019 17:56

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IfYouSaySoDear · 28/10/2019 17:48

Ummmmm ... having read this, I am now assuming that I must be a trans radfem despite technically being more of a GC libfem for all intents and purposes - except I don't identify with her characteristation of either.

Executive Summary: if the goal was to muddy the waters on questions of identity it's a "mission accomplished; stretch goal also achieved" from me.

What a load of word salad!

Sarzy82 · 28/10/2019 17:13

Hi I'm new here. It's refreshing you can all discuss this subject on here without getting censored and banned like on certain sites..

Siameasy · 28/10/2019 16:37

Good post Bickerin. I fear an entire generation of people (not just women) are lost in this woke-must say the right thing think the correct thought at all times-bubble. I chat to my niece (15) and younger nieces and cousins and luckily they think this stuff is bollocks.

BickerinBrattle · 28/10/2019 12:35

As an old Second Waver, since our work is now so reviled by younger feminists, I’d appreciate it if they’d fully renounce the fruits of that work rather than stand on the platform we built for them in order to cast their stones.

Truly, to be completely intellectually honest, Doyle should cut up her credit cards and renounce all rights to financial control on her own name, should turn down all writing and speaking opportunities and renounce her right to be heard on any political issue at all, should most certainly toss away birth control and even the idea of sexual pleasure and get used to lying back and thinking of England while alternately worrying about pregnancy, should mentally prepare for an old age eating cat food as was quite literally true for some. Over 50, the single biggest demographic in American poverty prior to pension and Social Security changes Second Wavers fought for. And she should expect, if she’s able to find work advertised for women, like a job as a waitress, that she’ll be sexually harassed with no recourse at all, since until Second Wavers coined the term, the notion of sexual harassment didn’t even exist.

It is the height of hypocrisy to enjoy the fruits of a liberation movement’s labour, fruits which those fighting for them didn’t actually get to fully enjoy themselves, and then turn around and revile that same liberation movement.

calllaaalllaaammma · 28/10/2019 12:00

In the article Sandy is confused about how to refer to (slag off) women, without naming them & this needs translation-.

She starts off with 'T**F' because-ha- no trans there so that's OK to swear at them.
"Gender critical feminists" Quotation marks to show contempt for them.
Julie Bindel (woman) 'throwing a fit' because - you know women get upset so easily over nothing!
"feminist" her quotation marks showing she doesn't believe Rad Fem women ARE feminists of any kind.
Cisgender -Women
Cis female embodiment Try 'female'
Cis people - this again refers to women.
The women who are currently railing to keep women trapped in stereotypical boxes She forgot and called us women! (small victory dance)
TexF she starts swearing again.
"Girls" in quotation marks as she's not sure if she should use this outdated & transphobic word.
Noxiously transphobic feminist Germain Greer Feminist Germain Greer.
Moony women ..books she read by oh so obviously intellectually inferior women to her.
Assigned sex sex.
There is no viable feminism without trans feminism Yes,Trans feminism IS feminism!!.

Women who walked right up to the door of the gender binary, and who not only refused to walk through it, but who now stand, blocking the exit, jeering and throwing rocks at anyone who tries to get past.

  • These ..yes..WOMEN...hurrah ! At least we are named correctly in this bizarre rant.
ginghamstarfish · 28/10/2019 11:08

Couldn't be arsed to read the text, but the name 'Sady' made me laugh. I would pronounce it as Saddy. I think they mean 'Sadie' but weren't able to spell it.

Waterl00 · 28/10/2019 10:37

The irony of Julie quoting Alice Cooper has gone right over Sady's head.

And in a piece entitled THE IRONY OF THE TERF WAR OVER “FEMININE” PRODUCTS too.

In a piece about irony it looks a bit dim to miss the ironic jokes.