"Gross, reductive naturalising maternal industrial complex"

Wrote a book about misogyny. Takes one to know one I suppose.

I always confuse Erasure with the Pet Shop Boys
I think that proves I have had more than my fair share of wine

Nope even without the wine this is all mad and hate filled. I may have a slight head cold but even on on eof my better days this is all too wordy for words!

Apparently, she's in the third trimester of her first pregnancy. I think she may be on the verge of finding a few more things out about the sources of misogyny.....

It's for men. Obv.

It's the central heart and reason for feminism. Women are valid and human whether they are mothers or not. And pregnancy and birth are also uniquely female experiences, and to most women who do experience them, life changing in some way (not the same way for everyone). AND the potential for women to experience these things whether they do or not is the basis of the patriarchy. Finding the path that connects and balances these things... that's feminism. I'd say, if your thinking about feminism doesn't centre one of the core exclusively female experiences, what is it for?

This made me really wonder about her book, so I had a look at it using Amazon look-inside (only available on Amazon.com, not Amazon.co.uk for this book).

It's actually very lucid with lots of excellent analysis. However, I did notice this quote from the conclusion (I've highlighted certain phrases). She's talking about Trump-voting left-behinds, but her words could equally well apply to another group:

"Listening and offering sympathy to those who are prone to shame-based misogynistic as well as racist outbursts is feeding the very need and sense of entitlement that drives them in the first place, when they go unmet. In other words, it’s adding fuel to the fire…You can’t do much to help or give to someone who, yes, is in genuine pain and lashing out – but only because they feel too needy and illicitly entitled to getting such moral attentions to begin with. The liberal impulse is therefore misplaced here, unless we want to get stuck feeding the need-monster forever. As many white women indeed appear to be committed to doing, when it comes to the white men they’ll remain loyal to not-withstanding their sexual misconduct ”

I wonder if she has ever heard of autogynephilia? Because what she is accusing other women of doing here seems to be exactly what she herself is doing with regard to autogynephilic men.

I do understand the point about adoptive mothers (I’m not one). I often read things here, especially in discussion about surrogacy, that state very unequivocally that anything other than care by the birth mother is inferior and damaging, and feel very sad for them. Nobody sane and humane would ever suggest that an adoptive mother’s love for her child wasn’t genuine, and it must be horrible to read a suggestion that you’re second best, or not doing the right thing. But I also get really tired of the endless demands that everyone police their language all the time for any hint of exclusivity and change their words until they have no meaning any more. Offence can only ever be taken, not given.

Parklife.

deary deary me

you're a woman love

your body is designed to bear and feed children, even if you chose not to

your mind however is not, and there is no need to feel limited or threatened by your biology, even though we all know that there are many people who will try to use it to make you feel that way

there, that wasn't hard, was it?

the rapidly growing surrogacy industry in places like India

well, indeed. If anything's a maternal industrial complex...

"I have nothing against breastfeeding but I don't think you should do it in public. It's disgusting and smug and only done by women trying to make a point."

"I have nothing against breastfeeding but I don't think you should call it 'breastfeeding'. It's disgusting and smug and only done by women trying to make a point."

You can tell me the second one is a lovely progressive feminist position if you want to, but they sound remarkably similar to me.

There really is so much distaste at mothers' bodies, isn't there?
It's really not in the least surprising that Mumsnet is targeted so hard.

It's more DARVO.

"Maternal industrial complex" would be things like Nestle promoting formula, the rapidly growing surrogacy industry in places like India.

Not individual women doing the normal things that normal mothering has always involved, for love and not for pay.

These nutters always do this: take phrases that they think sound intellectual and vaguely apocalyptic and use them to mean the literal (in the literal meaning of "literal" ) opposite of what they actually mean. It's like watching a crazy 21st century version of Mrs Malaprop with an insane political agenda.

This is so vile

What is it with the word 'gross' being used as if it were a term of meaningful political criticism?
It speaks volumes about the disgust these people have for women and their messy female bodies. Just old fashioned misogyny.

Being inclusive around all procreative activities is better for trans men and non-binary folks who participate in them; it's better for cis women who don't or can't; it's better for trans women who typically can't; and it's better for cis women who do, absent bad ideology.

How is pretending that not only women breastfeed going to help women who can't breastfeed? TRAs will use anyone as their shield.

I breastfed my babies with my breasts. I did not chest feed them with my chest because my chest does not produce milk. Chests and breasts are different body parts.

Only women have babies. Only women breastfeed their babies. The word women already includes every single human being that ever has or ever will gestate a baby and breastfeed. It is fully inclusive of all relevant human beings.

And that tweeter needs to learn some basic anatomy. Primary school level would suffice.

How dare she speak of a “maternal industrial complex” from within a country that has the highest maternal mortality rate in the Western world, where access to abortion is only available in 1/3 of American counties and under constant legal assault, where there there is very little aid to impoverished families, where single mothers with children are the biggest demographic living in poverty and hunger, where there is no paid maternity leave —

and from within a third wave feminist movement that prioritizes gender politics and prostitution-as-work rather over addressing the single biggest reason women lose put economically in the workforce, especially in the precariat labor force: the lack of affordable childcare.

The weird thing is this is written by a woman who seems to have studied and be an associate professor in several Ivy league universities. It's taken me a while, since I've been on twitter, to grasp how thoroughly dim some people are, but when it turns out that they teach in the most prestigious universities to be found, I give up.

Maternal industrial complex

So tell me about nestle and baby milk in the developing world... And how there are some fundamental problems with marketing baby milk.

So tell me about breastfeeding and how it can help with bonding mother and child... And tell me why some men might have an issue with this.

So tell me the purpose of breasts if not for feeding babies... Do they become a purely sexualised body part? How does this benefit women?

So tell me, if women aren't willing to have babies as part of a maternal industrial complex, how IS the human race supposed to reproduce?

Or is that just work for lower class women who submit their bodies to that whilst upper class women are free from this?

I could carry on... But I'll stop there...

in needof

brilliantly put, exactly my experience. and when not actually feeding, just communicating without words as only a mother and baby can

Her grammar is terrible! Won't be rushing to read her book...

Yes, my body making milk felt womanly to me too (I was very aware I was a biologically female mammal while doing it) and I almost certainly didn't have shaved legs or armpits, any makeup, or 'feminine' clothing whilst doing so. Also no nail polish. Also quite possibly not even brushed hair or showered a lot of the time. But definitely a woman.

Seriously though, my body making milk all by itself is one of the only times I've felt anything that could be described as feeling 'womanly'.

We best not mention how the TRAs are taking the idea of an LGB alliance which doesn't center trans people.