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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Issues of poverty are being neglected by social justice movements because of the overwhelming focus on sexuality...

131 replies

MaryRoseSatOnAPin · 23/10/2019 14:26

...a comment heard at a conference today.

Would you agree? The person who made the comment was speaking from a Latin American context, criticising the Western focus towards the developing world. Has the West disappeared down a wormhole of LGBTQ+ rights whilst people in the global South, ignored, continue to starve?

I'm an avid lurker on the feminism boards, but haven't posted before. Asking here because you are a knowledgeable bunch - someone, somewhere must have written articles on this, but I can't find anything! It is a controversial viewpoint, but I'd be interested to read more.

OP posts:
BickerinBrattle · 24/10/2019 02:03

Late to this thread, but it doesn’t take a huge amount of class analysis or understanding of class politics to draw a straight line between the elimination of a symbol for women on a product created to assidt women deal with the biological reality of a female reproductive system, on the one hand, and a rise in childbirth mortality on the other.

Women ARE an economic class — the means of reproduction. Every facet of that is under attack now from the left AND the right.

Now, for what reason could males, as the class that exploits the female means of reproduction have, for in various ways reasserting control over those means, ie women, in the West?

Could it have anything to do with the crisis in late-stage capitalism and the common prediction amongst economists that within 1-2 generations unemployment rates on the West will reach 50%?

Hmmm..... now WHY, in the face of that, would men want to insist 1) women aren’t an ontological category of their own, for instance with their own symbol, 2) women aren’t a political category that ought to be allowed to advocate for their rights, 3) women aren’t actually oppressed due to sex, since biological sex doesn’t exist, 4) sex work IS work, 5) surrogacy work IS work?

They have a plan for us, even if not all of them are consciously aware of that plan. The wealthy have gobbled most of the pie and hidden the rest in underground bunkers. Men KNOW this.

Women shall have no pie what, depending upon how well we perform for them, employed men taking those now scarce jobs, choose to feed us.

Which is why female solidarity is critical, as is the insistence that we EXIST, ontologically, politically, and as an economic class.

Hence the furious reaction to symbolic erasure.

Fallingirl · 24/10/2019 00:49

Neoliberalism is attractive because its easy, it doesn't require you to do anything.Socialism and feminism are hard by comparison. They require you to think about your own beliefs, attitudes and actions. There's no such thing as armchair Socialism.

And you could add, that socialism and feminism rarely provides victories. It is hard and depressing to see set back after set back.

Neoliberalism, on the other hand, doesn’t require anyone to actually fight for anything, other than more power to the already powerful, usually white, affluent men.

To no-ones surprise, such victories are easily achieved. What’s not to like? Especially if you get to call yourself woke and progressive while you're doing it.

MrGsFancyNewVagina · 23/10/2019 23:10

Why not? You've done it to me a few times.

Good grief! Are you 13? You’re rambling and ranting throughout the thread and I don’t think that you even know what you’re angry about! Confused

Inebriati · 23/10/2019 22:52

''Issues of poverty are being neglected by social justice movements because of the overwhelming focus on sexuality''.

That's the thread title, most of us agree its happening and that the left has been captured by neoliberals.

Neoliberalism is attractive because its easy, it doesn't require you to do anything.

Socialism and feminism are hard by comparison. They require you to think about your own beliefs, attitudes and actions. There's no such thing as armchair Socialism.

tumbleisatwat · 23/10/2019 22:49

@LangCleg

Why not? You've done it to me a few times.

Sorry you're confused. I'm not.

LangCleg · 23/10/2019 22:46

No need to @ me. I'm on the thread.

So, you're complaining about bourgeois liberal infiltration of the Labour Party (I agree with you) but you reject leftist workers internationalism, which is espoused by all socialists hanging in there within the party, including blue Labour (I don't agree with you)?

If so, that would basically be the Kipper position, hence my confusion.

tumbleisatwat · 23/10/2019 22:38

@LangCleg

Me too... 😜

Paid up member of the Labour Party here- I used a bit of vernacular language and you assumed that I'm a bit thick. Your prejudices are showing.

LangCleg · 23/10/2019 22:33

Still struggling to understand why a Kipper would object to Spiked...

louiseaaa · 23/10/2019 22:26

I dgaf about left wing politics. I am a working class girl with delusions of grandeur - I was brought up in the middle east by my draftsman/night educated (Remember proper funded adult education that up-skilled the workers?) /Imperial college graduated father and working mum.

I do however care about women and girls and I will vote for anyone upholding their sex based rights.

(This includes discrimination on the grounds of benefit poverty, assault by males, the state and health care providers (including but not limited to maternity and senior care) and infant mortality. )

NelliesAnswer · 23/10/2019 22:22

Yes. I have pondered this myself. Poverty on a domestic and global scale is being ignored because of the obsessive focus on 'gender identity' and sexual kinks.

And it's not only the issue of poverty that is being ignored. Others have touched on this already, I see.

Lots of people, young and old, think the idea of gender identity is bonkers. It's political correctness that is stopping people speaking up and taking a stand, because if you do, you are branded a bigot and your livelihood and reputation would be stripped and hung out to dry. At least that is why I don't speak out or have taken any meaningful stand against the absurdity of gender politics.

Backinthecloset123 · 23/10/2019 22:22

The Guardian " A venerable publication".

ROFL.

Ooohhhh "I won't read Spiked".

Well I won't, and can't, take anything you say seriously, tumbledisatwat.

IdiotInDisguise · 23/10/2019 22:21

I thought it was Brexit causing the damage, thousands of people using food banks but all is fine, we just need to be out of Europe.

But LatinAmerica tends to be rabidly homophobic so I am not surprised they are blaming the problem in the attention the LGBT issues can take... I myself think that if they prayed less and acted more, things would be very different.

Glitterbaby17 · 23/10/2019 22:19

I work in international aid and a lot of the funding which used to be available for projects targeting gender inequality and discrimination has been updated to explicitly reference support/inclusion for LGBT communities. This is positive in that it encourages organisations to consider this issue (as they should) and how to include those populations. It is however tough in areas where there aren’t active/out LGBTQ communities (we work in isolated rural areas and have never had a beneficiary identify as this, despite staff sensitivity training and openness) because we are now excluded from funding we could apply for before because they explicitly want us to explain how we engage LBTQ communities. We try but the reality is the focus of our work is on engaging communities to reduce child marriage, keep girls in schools, support domestic violence survivors and widows etc. We have strategies in place but it is not the priority need in areas where we work, and we can promote inclusion but we can’t create a population to work with in areas where that group are not coming forward. I think an issue is that in communities struggling with starvation, poor outcomes for children, high gender based violence etc is that identity politics is not as high on their hierarchy of needs as basic security etc and so it is challenging to do real work in that area

BezalHell · 23/10/2019 22:17

How did this thread turn into such a mess?

tumbleisatwat · 23/10/2019 22:16

If I answered that, I'd simply be repeating myself.

LangCleg · 23/10/2019 22:14

tumbleisatwat - on this thread, you've gone from identifarian paranoia about free speech publications to a kipperish isolationist view of the politics of domestic poverty. I am struggling to know where you're standing politically.

The OP's point was about identifarian issues imposed on the global south as a middle class enterprise and entirely unhelpful. Most of us here agree with that. And so does the traditional left, which has always been about class struggle both domestically and internationally. Workers of the world unite and all that.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 23/10/2019 22:12

Dead babies make me angry. In fact, I'm fucking livid

good

it should make any reasonable person fucking livid

why are you here being livid about it? because it seems like you hold the women on this board in some way responsible?

tumbleisatwat · 23/10/2019 22:08

Dead babies make me angry. In fact, I'm fucking livid.

We have the government we deserve as the momentum, we truly do.

tumbleisatwat · 23/10/2019 22:07

The problem, is that shite like this is sucking the oxygen of publicity from left wing politics.

Is has sod all to do with what is causing infant mortality to rise. Nothing. Same can be said of extinction rebellion.

This is how much of the country is starting to view the left- a bunch of naval gazing fools (men and women) who only care about latest, fashionable cause and sod the working class.

This is part of the reason we have Brexit, UKIP and the like.

Calling me names and claiming I hate women won't change this.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 23/10/2019 22:05

dunno wtf a 'fanny symbol' is

our new visitor seems kind of angry in an unfocused way....

Michelleoftheresistance · 23/10/2019 22:00

Just a quick show of hands, has anyone else, ever heard the term 'fanny symbol'?

It's a totally new one to me, not something I've ever heard said by any woman ever.

Also so interesting how important it is to some to tell women over and over again that it doesn't matter, even on threads not about it. It's as if there's some reason why women having feelings about this have to be silenced, as if them talking about it is causing some kind of problem somewhere.

hipsterfun · 23/10/2019 21:50

extinction rebellion can also take the blame

Uh, what?

tumbleisatwat · 23/10/2019 21:41

And having the fanny symbol on the packet is not a right worth fighting for. If taking it off makes a few TRA's happy let them have it.

And the word 'moron' is disabilitist.

tumbleisatwat · 23/10/2019 21:39

There you- calling people bigots for voting for the party that promises to do something for them.

Fanny, foof, fanjo, cunt, call it what you will.

And it's not just some of the dafter feminists, the TRA's, extinction rebellion can also take the blame.

MrGsFancyNewVagina · 23/10/2019 21:33

No- fanny symbols on packets is so much more important...

See? It's this kind of shite that drives people into the arms of UKIP etc.

You’re really obsessed with the word fanny, aren’t you? Women fighting to protect our rights are driving people bigots into the arms of UKIP. Women to blame for the ills of the world. Some things never change.

You do know we’re capable of fighting for the protection of females AND dealing with poverty, etc, don’t you? Since poverty and abuse, affects so many women, especially single parents, then protecting female rights, dignity and safety will amount to fuck all, if we can’t even guarantee them a man free space or they lose the right to claim their own sex.

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