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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

We have met with many women's rights stakeholders..

32 replies

TheShoesa · 23/10/2019 12:25

I am considering a FOI request regarding the above statement, which is on documents relating to last year's GRA consultation document. I would be interested to know the names of the organisations involved, but wondered whether that info was already public (I might be searching the wrong terms, but haven't found anything relating to this)

Apparently an equality analysis was also done, which is another document I am having difficulty finding.

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TheProdigalKittensReturn · 23/10/2019 13:33

How can people who can't even define what a woman is define what a woman's rights stakeholder is? I mean, I'm sure they talked to someone, and I'm also sure it was someone who they already knew wouldn't object to their plans.

Sicario · 23/10/2019 13:14

From my recollection the GRA consultation was effectively kept under wraps, and it was only through the hard work and determination of a few women that news started spreading about it.

It was conducted in a highly-suspect manner, with the (biased) questions designed by Stonewall. The attitude was "Why would we ask women about this? It's a trans issue. It's not about women. It's about US."

Trans activists and lobby groups ignore the law. They steamroller through any rules standing in their way. There are no impact assessments, no consultations with women's groups.

Read this thread if you're not familiar with it. Absolute case in point and all the relevant files have been "deleted". Like they ever existed in the first place.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3652524-Welsh-Assembly-and-the-lost-equality-impact-assessment

lassupthebrew · 23/10/2019 13:06

Under current rules the 4900 or so covered have to be transsexual not transgender and to be medically assessed by doctors who need to endorse - giving an independent person to come back on if problems result.

Being able to sue a doctor for letting someone inappropriate through is a sensible fall back to guard society.

Around 60/70% of transsexuals do have surgery as it is about sex dysphoria around the body and not gender identity dysphoria (self perceived gender roles) as with transgender.

I think the decision not to impose surgery as a necessity (which I know some transsexuals recommended to the GRA consultation) was partly to do with European human rights and also seems to have been to a degree based on the differing situation in 2004 when passed. As about 5000 transsexuals only who would apply were identified to the government committee. Which proved a very accurate estimate that the government now tell you means the GRA is 'obviously' not working.

In 2004 there were limited surgical options for transsexual men compared to nowadays. And about a quarter of GRC applications come from transsexual men.

I know several transsexuals do argue to impose either SRS or medical evidence (as has recently occurred in Japan in response to changing times) and emphasise why gender self identity is inappropriate as a gateway to the consequences of the GRA.

But as you can imagine the whole self ID ideology of identity is based purely on what you say regardless of any meaningful physical transition or assessment by others and so to them that is unacceptable.

Transgender outnumber transsexuals by at least 30 to 1.

Hence the push to remove all medical and psychiatric checks and balances - coming from the ones who do not have a medical problem but from what I can see often do have more obvious psychiatric problems than most well adjusted transsexuals who have been through that process.

From my contacts many covered by the GRA now feel that the gatekeeping needs strengthening, not removing.

But nobody actually asked those with a GRC before the government created their new ideas. Those were based on the ones who presently did not qualify making demands to be let in. Which explains why they wanted the rules removed, not just adapted.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 23/10/2019 13:04

fairplayforwomen.com/penis/

Fairplay has a section on this - it's deduction based on populations and the possible number of surgeries performed (and it seems they might be being conservative at 80% - from reading that it's likely much higher)

OhHolyJesus · 23/10/2019 12:55

I recommend an FOI as well and maybe look up previous ones if you want to see similar on the surrogacy consultation or the one E Williams did.

It would be good to see who they actually met with. I think E Williams went to internal investigation in the end as documents were 'lost'.

misscockerspaniel · 23/10/2019 12:44

Go for it. A FOI request could be highly revealing given (i) some people's definition of woman and (ii) that some funding may be being restricted to those groups who accept that males can be/are women. It would be interesting to know who "they" consulted with.

TheShoesa · 23/10/2019 12:36

Sorry about the confusing opening post. I suppose what I am asking is - does anyone know which women's rights groups were involved in drawing up the GRA consultation before I officially ask the question?

Another point I'd like clarification on if possible is the '80% of TW keep their penis'. I have raised that point in conversation, but would like to be able to back it up with a source if possible. (The nearest I have seen is an assumption based on the numbers of TW versus the number of specialist surgeons)

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