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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Yoga with Adriene - Redo of PMS Video

307 replies

ThePawtriarchy · 20/10/2019 06:36

I’ve just seen the message in my inbox from Yoga with Adriene saying that she’s done a redo of her really popular ‘Yoga for Cramps and PMS for Women’ video to remove the reference to ‘Hey Ladies’ etc and make it all gender neutral, to be inclusive.

I actually just feel really sad now. I feel excluded as a woman, there’s nowhere that’s safe where I don’t have to consider men first.

OP posts:
Floisme · 21/10/2019 17:08

The difference for me is that everyone needs to pee, get changed etc so, in those cases, a third space meets a need. But periods are not for everyone. They're about biology, not gender identity and only women need period related support. A year or so ago I'd have probably shrugged and thought - yeah whatever but I'm no longer comfortable about fudging.

That said, I can understand Adriene trying to find a way through it. I doubt this will be the end of the matter for her and the fact that she didn't make it clear from the start that she had left up the video for women, suggests to me that she thinks that too. But I can't blame her for trying to compromise - this is her livelihood.

I think I'm going to leave it there as I really don't think there's a lot more I can say without repeating myself. I don't even like yoga!

CharlieParley · 21/10/2019 17:06

Yes, ThePawtriarchy, it's the big announcement that is the problem, not remaking the video.

I find it incredibly offensive to be told that the word woman cannot be used in the context of female biological functions and associated health issues. This is not a dirty word, or an insult, or an error.

Woman is the word for adult human females. And a woman who identifies as trans remains just that - a woman. She may modify her body and appearance however she wishes as an adult, but this doesn't change her sex. And if she is fertile at any stage throughout her transition, she will continue to produce ova, not spermatozoa. And when her transition is exhausted, when there is nothing else she can cut off, excise from or attach to her body to make it resemble a male one, she will not be producing spermatozoa because she is not and will never be male. She will be an infertile female.

That's because we cannot change sex, and the word "woman" is a sex designator which is applied only to the sex class that produces large, immobile gametes and not the one producing small, mobile ones.

When we accept that the category word "woman" could ever be a word that excludes any particular group of adult human females, we have already lost the meaning of the word. And with it we lose so much more:

The ability to discuss our experiences as women, as humans born into female bodies and what this means in a male-dominated world. To assemble as women, to organise as women without men being allowed to join us so that we may freely discuss, address and fight our oppression under the patriarchy.

That's why Adriene's announcement saddens me - it is another incident, (however inadvertent) in the war on women. Somebody else called the phenomenon of female erasure "a death by a thousand cuts" on the Always thread and I think that's why it can be so difficult to get why others are angry about any given issue.

If it's not something you're not interested in anyway or if you're not bothered by such a change because it has no effect on how you're using a product or a service, it can be hard to get all that exercised about it.

I get that.

But I urge you to at least remember this, to keep a mental tally of every time an incident of female erasure occurs, even if it doesn't upset you at that particular moment. And then maybe you will notice that this is part of a wider problem.

Cohle · 21/10/2019 16:53

I agree with Tequila.

There are plenty of examples where giving transwomen access to women's sex segregated spaces may have a genuine impact upon women's safety and comfort. This isn't one of them.

This is an example of a genuine third space being created and, to absolutely no one's surprise, FWR aren't happy with that either.

ThePawtriarchy · 21/10/2019 16:40

I explained why in my post above.

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TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 16:34

But she hasn't changed the title of her video. So, as far as I recall, the video was always for PMS/cramps and it still is. I don't think it was ever "for women".

Secondly, the view on FWR has always been that there is no objection to trans men or trans women. The objection is to the removal of women's spaces and that creating 3rd spaces is the way to go.

So, in this instance Adrienne has taken nothing away. The video, where she addresses women/ladies is still there. That's there for you.

She's now made a different one that doesn't refer to sex, for everyone.

What is the problem with that? You don't want other people to have something relevant for them? Why not? What have you had taken away here?

If you go out to a public place and you go to the toilet and you find a ladies, a men's and then a gender neutral toilet are you going to complain because the word ladies has been removed from the GN door? This is just the same.

There's a video for women and then a GN for anyone who wants it. How can you object to that?

ThePawtriarchy · 21/10/2019 16:13

She does yoga for gardeners, for nurses, for runners. I am none of those things, but don't find myself so offended or excluded when she addresses them as such. I've done some of the videos when I need to relax at home (the nurses one) and never felt excluded by her talking to them as such, so we arrive back at the point that it is only the word woman that is the problem.......

This. This change has come at a time when the language and protected rights for women is under attack and fast being eroded. You do not need to look far to see concrete examples of this on the same day I started this thread. So this change doesn’t live alone and while we can be told to play nicely, nobody is excluded now, that won’t protect women’s rights. There are some women cycling athletes that have been playing nicely this weekend and unfortunately it doesn’t seem to be going well for them.

It’s correct that I would not have noticed if Adriene had originally said ‘hey friends’ in her original video. But she didn’t. Perhaps this was because it is only biological women who have periods. We all know that.

But yet she was put under pressure to change that. Per above, not the gardeners video, not the writers one, not the nurses one.

OP posts:
ThePawtriarchy · 21/10/2019 15:53

Well this is going well.

OP posts:
TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 11:02

If you read my posts, they haven't been insulting (however you may find the latest one towards me is the opposite). But it's something not only yogi's will advise, but pretty much everyone in a healthcare service.

Isn't it funny how you find it insulting to have your posts to me reflected back at you? Funny how it's not at all insulting for you to repeatedly post patronising "I know better. If only you would do x,y and z as I have done your life would be so much better" bilge at me isn't it?

You need to learn some insight and to know that you are the expert on your own body and disability, no one else's and you most certainly do not have the right to an opinion on my body nor what I do with it.

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 10:58

womenspeakout

Do you know what is incredibly rude - continually ramming your judgements down somebody else's throat when they gave repeatedly asked you to stop.

Do you always trample over people's boundaries and refuse to respect their request for you to stop?

You do not know it all. Maybe speak to your yogi about respecting boundaries, respecting someone else's journey, respecting the right for someone to make their own decisions?

Stop lecturing me as though you know me or anything about me.

You are rude, disrespectful and harrassing me.

If yoga makes people like you and lamahaha then I want nothing to do with it.

womenspeakout · 21/10/2019 10:49

My learning has taught me to listen to my body and only do what benefits it and leave behind that which doesn't, and in that I have realised this conversation is doing me no good, especially to the point in which I have been told I should fight and not surrender as I have done (mistake).

So I will leave this thread here and not continue any further, this will be to the benefit of my health, that which doesn't serve me I shall throw away. It's a shame as I feel strongly about the YWA comments, but this is not serving me anymore.

womenspeakout · 21/10/2019 10:36

*My apologies for missing that and I'm very sorry to hear it. Disability and poor health are fuckers. It must be very hard.

I think though that you (generic you) have to let people find their own path. I don't want to put words in anyone else's mouth but from where I'm sitting, Tequila has repeatedly told you that she has her own way of dealing with her situation and does not want your advice. She has asked you to stop.*

Yes, I have so many things, basically at it's core, none of the functions of my body works how they should which effects every function I do, things you wouldn't imagine is even connected. It's a multi system thing and complicated.

that's fine. I'm explaining about myself, and in that, I cannot hope someone keeps on hating their body, as really, it doesn't help anyone, especially with a disability, it only makes things harder as you're literally battling yourself, and it's a key aspect of yoga, to accept your body as yours and what it is, and within that you find your capabilities.

If you read my posts, they haven't been insulting (however you may find the latest one towards me is the opposite). But it's something not only yogi's will advise, but pretty much everyone in a healthcare service.

womenspeakout · 21/10/2019 10:31

Again, I hope that you find the strength to fight and not surrender as you have done.

I get you're hurting and in pain, but this is incredibly rude.

I haven't surrendered, as you would ave read in my posts, and I have fought my disabilities, acceptance doesn't mean a surrender.

This is incredibly rude towards someone with a disability, it does show a lack of understanding deep down though and comes from a place of hurt and hate, which is fine and understandable. It only highlights how you completely misunderstand what i and others have been saying about acceptance, it's in no way surrendering, but can be misunderstood as such,

Believe me, I haven't quit or surrendered, and I have strength enough. I've gone from being absolutely housebound to functioning very well.

As I said, this sentence highlights your complete misunderstanding of everything being expressed, perhaps ask your yogi about it, because they clearly have no understanding of yoga if they haven't even mentioned anything like it.

Cohle · 21/10/2019 10:19

Yes, it's almost as if when you say something wildly offensive it gets deleted. Shocking.

Lamahaha · 21/10/2019 10:17

Hmmm. Mass deletions. Who'd a thunk it!

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 10:02

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Cohle · 21/10/2019 09:55

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Lamahaha · 21/10/2019 09:53

correctiion: if these people continue their yoga journey with...

Lamahaha · 21/10/2019 09:51

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Floisme · 21/10/2019 09:46

you must have missed me explaining I had multiple disabilities that have completely changed my life and the way I can live, including having to give up what I'd dedicated my lief to (dance).

My apologies for missing that and I'm very sorry to hear it. Disability and poor health are fuckers. It must be very hard.

I think though that you (generic you) have to let people find their own path. I don't want to put words in anyone else's mouth but from where I'm sitting, Tequila has repeatedly told you that she has her own way of dealing with her situation and does not want your advice. She has asked you to stop.

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 09:36

What's wrong is persistently ramming that down the throat of someone who has said please stop, I don't want this.

That's what's wrong. Hope away if you like, to yourself. Stop forcing yourself onto me.

Again, I hope that you find the strength to fight and not surrender as you have done.

womenspeakout · 21/10/2019 09:33

No, it's not wrong to hope that someone stops hating their body so much they argue like this about hating their body. There's clearly a lot of hurt, that responds well to healing and acceptance. To always be fighting against a body, it doesn't work.

There's hurt there, and nobody would wish that on anyone.

I know those feelings well, I know it doesn't do anyone the ultimate of good to ever hate their body in the long run.

I don't need a refund, I hope you have a good day and life.

DickKerrLadies · 21/10/2019 09:26

I too wondered why we needed the email but if she's been being hounded for years by TRAs I can understand why she wanted to let everyone know so they might back the fuck off.

We know how persistent they can be.

TequilaPilates · 21/10/2019 09:16

It's not wrong to wish that for someone,

Yes it is, when they keep saying that they don't want it.

Honestly, if I were you I would ask your yoga instructor for a refund. You need to work much harder on acceptance - learning to accept that not everyone is you, that people have different opinions to you and that your way of doing things is not the only "right" way.

Why do you believe that, as I said, I do not feel excluded when she addresses anyone else.

Because not everyone is you and some people feel differently to you. That's what you need to learn to accept.

You've gone on and on about what worked for you and how much better your life is. Great. Good for you. That means that you know about you, and your body and your disability.

It does not mean that you have become the font of all knowledge about everyone else's body or disability.

I think you're wrong. I think in accepting that you've taken the easy way out. It's too difficult for you to continue the fight and do you've taken the easier path and accepted where you are. I wish for you that you find the fire within yourself to start the fight again, to be able to push forward and not remain where you are now.

Have a good day.

womenspeakout · 21/10/2019 08:56

Oh give over. Maybe you need to do a bit more work on "acceptance". Don't think you're quite there yet.

Why do you believe that, as I said, I do not feel excluded when she addresses anyone else.

womenspeakout · 21/10/2019 08:54

*Yes I am trying to change my body, hence why I refuse to accept it.

I don't get this constant badgering. Good for you, you accepted your body. Great. I'm pleased for you.

I don't want to accept mine. I will not accept that this is my life. I will not accept that this is how my body is meant to be. I will do all that I can to change it. That is my right.

I am not going to feel at peace with it so I ask that you please stop telling me to do proper yoga to learn to accept, how great it is to accept etc etc.

I don't want to. How would you feel if I posted repeatedly to tell you that you are wrong for accepting your body, that you've just given up and that you must refuse to accept it. Over and over again?

If you're happy with where you are then great. Why the need to continuously badger me to be like you? I dont want it.*

No badgering, you're just illustrating an internal conflict you're battling.

You said you don't want more out of your body, which is conflicting with you saying you want to change your body.

I am speaking to you, not badgering. Honestly, you sound exactly what I was like. I was denying ever accepting my useless body for what it was. It was a struggle I wouldn't wish on anyone.

It's not wrong to wish that for someone, it's a kindness. To hate the body you are in means such a conflict that means the most cannot be gotten out of said body.When we accept that, it opens so many doors to us that we was blocked from seeing in the haze of our hatred of the body we're in. It completely changed my life and my perspective on my disability and allowed me to do so much more without lugging around that hatred.

It's not offensive to hope someone on their yoga journey finds that, because that's what yoga is all about. It's like saying namaste, it's only meaning the best. Of course I hope that for you, only a monster would hope you carry on living in a self loathing state. Having been there, I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and always hope that everyone would find it.

So I wish you a good day and hope your journey towards a better place, as I do everyone.

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