Calling out male creepiness

If someone asks what you'd do in a situation where a man was creepy then I'd assume they're looking for responses along the lines of to report or not to report, I reported and this is what happened, if you don't report then this is what might happen, rather than "but have you considered that your perceptions may be wrong?"

None of the posters on this thread were with OP and her daughter that day in front of that man.

No, but lots of us have had people say "it's my first time, be gentle" in non-sexual ways.
OP should have just said "a checkout cashier man was creepy, how would you have handled it?".

That's unfortunate for you, but does not mean that other women shouldn't trust their own perceptions or talk themselves out of their awareness that a man was behaving inappropriately.

Whether or not she wants to follow up with the shop is up to her, but if people could stop gaslighting her that would be lovely.

Lots of posters have had the experience however of being in a situation where some people felt one thing was meant, and others really disagreed, or where creepy feeling people really had something else going on, or where their own comments were completely misinterpreted by others.

Being a feminist doesn't mean we accept the idea that any one of us is infallible about our feelings about others, or even our feelings about ourselves, or our perception of situations, or that everyone uses language in the same way or is equally perceptive about it. We all know that people can say things in really weird ways without intending it and sometimes people really get the wrong end of the stick. In both cases they are usually quite unaware of it. People can be like this and also, separately, have a creepy vibe.

The fact is that you cannot get a person in trouble at work just because they have a creepy vibe. As far as what he actually said, about half of the people here seem to say they wouldn't have interpreted it as creepy at all. I wouldn't be confident enough about that to get a person in trouble in their job.

I believe the OP thinks he was creepy. I don't agree with her interpretation of what was said.

He could've said anything in a creepy way..

Why can't you understand that?

I believe the OP thinks he was creepy. I don't agree with her interpretation of what was said.

I am not prepared to give unquestioning support to any women just because she is a woman and she said so. The expression used is a common one used in all sorts of situations.

prodigal beat me to it!

But not all posters are taking it as sexual innuendo..

None of the posters on this thread were with OP and her daughter that day in front of that man. OP said that the man gave her the creeps. People on this board, however, did not hear the way the man said it, see his body language, the way he looked at her etc. Why can't people here accept what OP is saying - that this man made her and her daughter feel uncomfortable?

I think that trying to minimise her experience and that of her daughter in this way on a feminist forum is a bit shit, frankly.

I think people making the argument that this could be innocuous should be aware that by doing so they're strongly suggesting that the OP isn't capable of judging whether or not the man she met meant it in a creepy way, which is rather underminey and not very helpful as a thing to suggest on a threat like this where she's clearly looking for support. She was there, you weren't, why do you believe your interpretation more likely to be correct than hers?

But not all posters are taking it as sexual innuendo. The phrase "first time poster, be gentle with me" or similar is used regularly on AIBU and FWR.

I was thinking about this, and the difference is the absence of saying what the 'first time' is.
When someone says 'first time poster' there's no ambiguity, that's what the first time is referring to.
Left open - 'it's my first time' is innuendo. Had he said 'it's my first time on the registers' it would have been completely normal. But the kind of nudge-nudge, wink-wink innuendo is endemic to a certain sector of (especially) men in that age bracket. The seventies have a lot to answer for.

This is the issue.

Many things, individually, are innocuous.

When put together they show an intent - the creepiness is greater than the sum of its parts.

I've definitely experienced it - a man does something, seems like an accident (brushes my body as he goes past or something). By the third time it happens, it's not an accident, it's being creepy.

Following your kid's trainer on instagram - not that creepy. Following your kids trainer, and a load of other, solely female insta models, 20 years younger than you - creepy.

Posters use it on AIBU and FWR - are they all creepy perverts?

Yeah, exactly, and I've seen it on other forums which were just women talking to each other and they'd have been horrified for people to think they were making some sort of sexual reference.

For a lot of people it seems to just mean, please be nice, I'm feeling a bit delicate about this.

Sexual innuendo is yet another male dominance display men subject women to on a daily basis

But not all posters are taking it as sexual innuendo. The phrase "first time poster, be gentle with me" or similar is used regularly on AIBU and FWR. I've even seen it in The Archers threads. Are they all making sexual innuendos?

The acid test for me is - would he have said it to a man?
Sexual innuendo is yet another male dominance display men subject women to on a daily basis.

The OP said:

Obviously he gave me the creeps and both me and DD commented he was a perv to each other after we had left the till.

I. Believe. Her.

The choice of the word "gentle" and "first time" make it a sexual reference

You're right, I have seen it used several times on here.

It was originally a sexual reference, but I think it's one of those instances where it has entered speech patters in a way that means people often say it without any intent to reference that idea

Posters use it on AIBU and FWR - are they all creepy perverts?

I have a creepy colleague at work, the sort of bloke who slides his hand down your waist when he goes past

It's hardly the same as the incident here is it? There's nothing ambiguous about that.

His comment would have been lost on me I'm afraid.

Can't stand creeps though.

Oh dear, I've heard people use this phrase many times, women to women, women to men. Creeps the lot of them?

Yeah, they do. It was originally a sexual reference, but I think it's one of those instances where it has entered speech patters in a way that means people often say it without any intent to reference that idea.

TBH I don't think it was an unambiguous sexual reference or that the two comments were clearly connected. That being the case, I likely wouldn't do anything, generally I'd have to be pretty sure to make a complaint.

I would try not to let a generalised feeling of creepiness come into my decision in this type of situation.

The acid test for me is - would he have said it to a man?

I don't see why not, but then I'm not convinced he was making sexual references.

The choice of the word "gentle" and "first time" make it a sexual reference

Oh dear, I've heard people use this phrase many times, women to women, women to men. Creeps the lot of them?

I think I'd just say in all honesty, 'I think the way you worded that could be misconstrued, so you might want to work on that.' Don't think I'd formally complain after the act but I'd keep an eye out for him if I went again and be more ready to tackle it the next time. It's so easy to get wrong-footed when you're busy thinking about shopping and other stuff.

You go to someone more senior than him. Explain exactly what happened and that you don't expect it to happen again.

Not easy I know.

I have a bloke I dance with occasionally who has just crossed the line from pleased to dance with me to creepy. I didn't deal with it properly last time, but next time I see him I will say that I don't want to dance with him as he made me feel uncomfortable last time.

That's the problem with these things though, so often the creepiness is subtle enough that you end up not doing anything about it because you don't want to be 'that' person, and most people wouldn't want to be the reason someone lost their job.

I have a creepy colleague at work, the sort of bloke who slides his hand down your waist when he goes past, and makes creepy intrusive comments too. But he is more senior than me, and on a permanent contract rather than zero hours, all me complaining would do is lose me my job. I'm easily and cheaply replaceable, he isn't, so he is protected if one of us was to make a complaint. Hence why he chooses to pick on the young women on our team rather than the female managers. So I have to put up with it, makes my blood boil but there is nothing I can do.