does everybody hate the term womxn? Or is it just me?

I mean other sorts of cunty women obv.

This can equally be applied to other women who feel they have little voice in feminism and elsewhere ie women who are poor, disabled, in criminal justice system etc.

For people with dicks to align themselves with these genuinely under represented women is a piss take. Their problems may be real (although many tra don't seem to be having a particularly tricky time, being on telly a lot, winning women's sports competitions, prizes, awards) but they are not the same as the problems women have. They are rooted in homophobia. The natural allies of trans women are gay men. These people have little in common with women. And our struggles are different. Some prominent tras are actively anti abortion for eg. So progressive. So much empathy with women.

'Black feminist's criticisms of racism in white feminism are well-made, well-founded and ongoing unfortnately. For MTF trans to jump on these women's struggle in order to identify themselves into the woman box looks a lot like appropriation to me.'

This.
I also find this sidetrack very white /western centric.
Are women in India and namibia and all the other countries of the world where white is minority in terms on numbers, to give up the word woman, because some women in majority white counties have felt (quite reasonably from what I can see) excluded/ invisible from their country's feminism movements?

These claims just open up even more iffy underlying attitudes than were even there in the first place.

No women in the uk in 2019 think that the word woman only applies to some cunty women, and that women who are other sorts aren't women??? I mean come off it.

The word "women" does not exclude any women. The word "wowxn" does.

I find it far more pointless than "cis". I would not engage with anyone who used it.

I had a look on Twitter and it does appear that there are black women using the term "womxn" about themselves.

There are also plenty of black women who aren't:

twitter.com/search?q=black%20women&src=typed_query&f=user

Black feminist's criticisms of racism in white feminism are well-made, well-founded and ongoing unfortnately. For MTF trans to jump on these women's struggle in order to identify themselves into the woman box looks a lot like appropriation to me.

Getbusy: I got sucked in.

Fine line. Racism...well, it pervades everything, just like the patriarchy.

The Women, Race and Class ref is because people on this thread seemed to not to have realised there had ever been a discussion about race and women in terms of feminism, or that it was a new thing introduced by TRAs. ONE of the discussions was started in the 80s.

Of course there are black / minority ethnic women here, and I also see a LOT of racism or obliviouslness to racism on MN. I only started this because as it happens, the people I know who use womxn are black women, and they have explained why to me. And given that it was black women who said that to me, I am not ready to tell people what they can and cannot call themselves. (I am not saying it is only black women who use 'womxn')

Camping, for someone who proclaims not to speak for black women, you’re doing a mighty fine job of it

Read Women, Race and Class. Written in 1981
Why? What will it add to my lived experience, including during the year of publication?
Tell me Camping, why are you spouting on about your black friends’ viewpoints on this board? Do you think there are no black/ ethnic minority women here?

Evaristo is a fan of "womxn"

www.ica.art/learning/the-politics-of-pleasure

The usage of ‘womxn’ in texts related to this programme stems from the use of the term by Politics of Pleasure participant Bernardine Evaristo in herdescriptionof the characters in her novelGirl, Woman, Other. The Politics of Pleasure programme takes this cue from Evaristo, using ‘womxn’ to explicitly include and centre self-identified women who are trans, black, and of colour

Here is the cover. I now have less than zero interest in reading her book.

I haven’t read the Guardian article but it surely must be referring to Bernadine Evaristo, who has just jointly won the Booker prize

It is. It is on the front cover of the weekend review section over a photograph of Evaristo.

everybody hates it except a few woke twats

I assume Evaristo approved the use with her cover photo.

Wom-ex-un? Womb-zum?

No ideas!

"When the hell did 'woman' not mean 'woman of colour'?"

Perhaps when women of colour have not felt explicitly included?

Ask on Twitter, maybe......

I am a gender critical woman. I do not use 'womxn', but if others choose to when it seems the right word for their collective, then that is up to them.

Also, would you not say that a group of women making themselves visible as women and promoting networking oportunities is not broadly feminist?

How does one get an official feminist seal of approval?

to explicitly include transgender women and women of color

When the hell did 'woman' not mean 'woman of colour'?

the Visibility group you have linked to is not a feminist group it is a women’s group offering networking opportunities and support. It takes a massive and some would say disingenuous leap of imagination to claim this group is a result of exclusion by white feminists

I said:.

"I see this word used by lots of black Women’s groups where women feel that intersectionality is more important to them because they have not always felt fully included by a largely white feminist movement"

i.e not that they were a feminist group, but they have clearly found a visibility around race and gender to be necessary or important. And it is black feminist friends who have explained the use of the word womxn as a recognition of intersectionality that has arisen out of finding white feminism to be not fully inclusive.

I can't speak for black women and don't want to.

But look at what happened in the response to the film Suffragette.

Read Women, Race and Class. Written in 1981.

It's pronounced "bullshit".

But you would still sometimes need to differentiate different groups, so you would need to add-
Black womxn
White womxn
Trans womxn
....might as well just use the word women.

Pronunciation:

The 'wom ' in women in pronounced 'wim'; x is like ks; it is therefore pronounced 'wimskin'.

Which I don't like, because it sounds a bit like saying we're all wearing woman-skins aka lady-costumes.

Camping, the Visibility group you have linked to is not a feminist group it is a women’s group offering networking opportunities and support. It takes a massive and some would say disingenuous leap of imagination to claim this group is a result of exclusion by white feminists.

Womxn , I pronounce it as the bollocks it is ( as an added bonus for shiny inclusivity points, it retains the x sound the woke appear to be fond of too).

The church of the latter day woke

Worth a re-read:

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/the-word-woman-is-under-attack/

Words matter. The word ‘woman’ matters. Some people say that word is under attack, by a movement that wants to remove it from the language, and the law, with all that that implies for the people it describes. When I first heard that warning, I didn’t listen. I’m listening now. You should too.

I use Ms,like Mr the title doesn't indicate marital status.

Women, the only oppressed group not allowed to define themselves.

I know we do have that extra 'X' that male borns will never have, but this is scraping the barrel, mxn.

So
XY=men
XY who ID as XX=transwomen
XX who ID as XY =transmen
(No letters ommitted)

Women = womxn

Does this mean The Guardian will be ommitting the X or another letter from all other groups mentioned, along with?

Non- bnary
Gender Flud

“You are suggesting this is a term used mainly by groups of women of colour”

Not ‘mainly’. I don’t know if it is mainly. The people I have noticed on Twitter who use it are black, talking about black politics.

“This entire nonsense about feminism excludes black women is made up TRA bollocks in an attempt to equate genuine black oppression with claimed trans oppression. It is beyond ridiculous.”

REALLY???? I have heard WOC talk about mainstream feminism being centred around white Women’s concerns for decades. Long before Trans politics or TRAs became a thing. Anyway, thanks for dismissing my black female friends views on feminism and rave as ‘bollocks’

Maybe read Women, Race and Class by Angela Davis.

“I’ve not come cross any black women’s groups who have felt so excluded by white women that they would deny their own biology and team up with white men who believe they are white women”
Neither have I. The groups, formal and informal that I have noticed have been black Women and black Trans Women / non binary etc. Not white.

Anyway I am not a Black woman (or womxn) , just saying what I have observed and heard, I do think that feminism has often failed to be fully inclusive though.

And I am not comfortable with yelling at other women and telling them how or how not they may describe themselves.

Whether that be Ms or womxn .

Why are 'women of colour' separated this way from 'women'?!

Camping, from that link
WeAreVisible was an opportunity to celebrate the contributions of Black Womxn in the theatre sector. ‘Womxn’ is written as an inclusive word that recognises non-binary people and trans women.

I thought you were arguing that black women use womxn as they feel women predominantly means white women. However that link states it's to include trans people.