Liz Truss criticised for saying she wants to protect "single-sex spaces and vulnerable women" re GRA in House of Commons

Cis is the opposite of trans. I am not aware, TiredofthisBS, (your choice of user-name does suggest a certain amount of closed-mindedness, though), that I have personally referred to you as cis anything. The term 'woman' is man-made so it is ironic that 'cis' should cause such fury. And I have done my research into this, extensively.

'I wonder, how many contributors to this thread actually know any trans women? '

Probably most.
I certainly do. And suddenly lots of transmen, due to the way girls transition in clusters.

I have never understood the assumption that people with concerns about transactivism don't know transwomen - very often it is seeing first hand how the activism manipulates or harms our friends that makes us investigate more deeply.

Why does any amount of hate or crime against a subset of men by other men mean they should all be allowed in women’s spaces? Why does the mental health, difficult surgery or pain of some men mean women must not be allowed any sex based rights?

Exactly Birds those two questions need to be asked over and over again.

Oh, and Connie I know several Transwomen. The greatest threat to their mental health is the people who lie to them and encourage them to believe untruths.

What threat to cis women do you think trans women are?

Ask the victims of Karen White who were sexually assaulted whilst incarcerated.

@Connie68 do not call me Cis. I am not Cis anything, I am a woman and it is insulting to me that you use a term that makes me a subset of my own sex. I suggest you do your own research and look at the threads on here.

Cos women? What are cis women? The word is woman or women , the rest are sub categories invented for personal use by individuals.

I wonder, how many contributors to this thread actually know any trans women? What threat to cis women do you think trans women are? There seems to be a lot of anger aimed at a group of people that few of you are personally involved with.

Why does any amount of hate or crime against a subset of men by other men mean they should all be allowed in women’s spaces? Why does the mental health, difficult surgery or pain of some men mean women must not be allowed any sex based rights?

I might send a card to support Liz Truss!
Good for her, and I'm life-long labour

If Labour get in, self ID is a given, women will have all rights eradicated instantly. Jeremy Corbyn knows this & doesn’t care.

It's worth highlighting this.

No mention of the fact that any increase in 'hate crime' against women can't be measured, because violence and verbal abuse of women isn't considered one of those specially awful hate crimes, just one of the common or garden kinds the police don't bother to investigate. Suck it up ladies. Be more careful.

Exactly.

Misogynistic hate crime is so common that people don't even see it as hate crime, its just 'one of those things'.

Fuck Labour.

If Labour get in, self ID is a given, women will have all rights eradicated instantly. Jeremy Corbyn knows this & doesn’t care.

if Labour are making things worse for half the population by not supporting women a vote for them is not a vote for the people.

As solidly working class I don't see anything in Corbyn that suggests he has any idea how to support working class people either.

We're down to selecting least bad out of a terrible set of options, and Labour and LibDem are not the least bad for women. That doesn't make me right wing.

I will not blindly support ideology, that way dictators get into power

Previous thread here has links to Hansard

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3720346-Liz-Truss-speaks-in-support-of-single-sex-spaces

There has been a 37% increase in hate crime against transgender people says Dawn Butler, to justify throwing open women's spaces to men.

No mention of the fact that any increase in 'hate crime' against women can't be measured, because violence and verbal abuse of women isn't considered one of those specially awful hate crimes, just one of the common or garden kinds the police don't bother to investigate. Suck it up ladies. Be more careful.

No mention of the fact that opening up women's spaces to include men will increase those common or garden crimes against women by something like 80% (sorry - can't remember exact figures of increased likelihood of assault in mixed sex facilities.) But who cares when it's only women who are affected? They're not special. Violence against women is old news. Yawn.

After all this time of feeling utterly at a loss about who I'd vote for in a general election, this has made up my mind. I'm not happy about facilitating another tory government for many very obvious reasons, but once the rights that women have battled relentlessly for over the last century have been given away, we won't be able to get them back.

No will acknowledge that your political persuasion has no influence on misogyny.

To be clear, I'm not happy about this! I want to support Labour! But I also know that they are firmly wedded to an ideological position that puts women last in relation to trans issues, and until that changes it's foolish to assume that they'd do the right thing if in power. They're already telling us what they'd do and it's not good.

Amazing how a news item with the headline about international women's day became all about the T very rapidly. Also why do they always include LGB in talks about GRA my understanding is that it is just for transgender people?

As of now it's almost guaranteed that any Labour government we'd get would not protect women's right to sex segregated spaces, places on shortlists, etc. Very much the opposite in fact.

That's what I was wondering birdsdestiny. Do we refuse to acknowledge that in this one respect the Tories in the form of Truss might do something good and wait for Labour to come to power in the hope that they will ensure that the law is formulated to protect women?

I'm so tired of this being framed as a tribal political issue. It's not, it's a women's issue. Do I think the Tories are great on women's issues in general? No, they're not. OTOH Labour has always had its share of misogynists too and damn has this issue ever brought some of the better hidden ones out of the cupboard.

All parties are basically in favor of male dominance, they're just haggling over where the boot should be placed on women's necks. At the moment the potential for laws to be passed that would take a huge effort to undo is great enough that there's likely going to be a certain amount of pragmatism needed in terms of who we support for strategic reasons and then holding their feet to the fire to ensure that they follow through on any promises to support women's right to sex segregated spaces, free association, etc.

And the misogynists in the Labour party? Are they our allies? They are currently targeting female MPs for deselection. I will not vote Tory but dont for one minute think the left are women's allies.

This is a good start, let's see if she sticks to it after TRAs and their friends in high places start turning the thumbscrews.

Looks like tories for me then

Shame there are no other credible parties but they made the bed.

Holy shit, there's a politician out there willing to entertain the idea that women actually exist independently of men who say they're women - and that both groups need protection? That's genuinely amazing. God I hope she isn't beaten into capitulation.