Liz Truss criticised for saying she wants to protect "single-sex spaces and vulnerable women" re GRA in House of Commons

Connie68 Sat 19-Oct-19 12:14:17
Mldgebabe. I would very much appreciate the source of your statistics. I'm sure you would be very happy to supply that information here? Many thanks.

“Citation or you can’t say it !” Straight from the Reddit \MRA playbook.

We’re not that daft.

Liz Truss is correct to acknowledge women's sex, as determined at conception and observed at birth, based rights matter.

There is no detail of how she is going to protect our rights though so I'm going to reserve judgement. For any party to gain my vote there needs to be a clear manifesto commitment to defining sex in law as an immutable, determined at conception and observed at birth characteristic that can never be identified into or out of, and a clear manifesto commitment to making single sex spaces a compulsory legal requirement.

Trans means moving across, cis means unmoving.
So the terms should be trans female and trans male as moving from man to woman is impossible; no-one can change their chromosomes with a flick of hair or slash of lipstick.

Absinthefriends, I'm sure you are all changing the way the world thinks in this conversation strand, which is admirably pro-active. Vulnerability comes in many shapes, as does prejudice. Bandying the term 'stats' to support an opinion is dangerous. Spending your Saturday bitching at anyone who threatens 'woman' (etymology, by the way, is 'wife of man', which then evolved into woman - man therefore came first) on a website seems rather pointless, but I'm sure it's cathartic thinking you're putting the world to rights. I'm off to spend time with my family. Cheerio and have fun.

For the benefit of Connie, according to Wikipedia, cis gender is :
"Cisgender (sometimes cissexual, often abbreviated to simply cis) is a term for people whose gender identity matches the sex that they were assigned at birth"

Calling me cisgender is insulting because I don't have a gender identity, I do not recognise or limit myself by the stereotypes of sex. I am a human who has female sex organs which makes me a woman. My potential is no different to that of a man except for how I would be involved the the production (or not) of offspring.

Gender is regressive stereotyping bullshit that should be discouraged, not encouraged.

You're all much more patient than me today.

'break it down for me' thread is a great place to start.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Busy today, but you can find it easily yourself because there is a thread somewhere on the feminism board in the last year with the numbers and sources.

Or find the source that backs up your position if you find that easier .

Information is based on the uk prison population. Actually when you find the numbers, it looks like transwomen are much more likely than men to be sex offenders, but the prison guys says that's partly because they don't record gender information for prisoners who are only in for a short time.

Connie, in the nicest possible way (of course) it's no one's job to 'indulge you'. And if the question 'how are women's rights threatened by transwomen' is genuine, I suggest you put the kettle on, make yourself comfortable and settle in for an afternoon reading these boards. The 'break it down for me' thread is a great place to start.

The Romans called one of their provinces Cisalpine Gaul, meaning 'Gaul this side of the Alps'. I believe it's also used in chemistry as you stated.

But as men cannot become women, there's no need for cis to describe us. Males can call themselves transwomen if they like but that doesn't change what I am.

It's actually a chemistry term but hey ho.
You've been told that it's insulting. You're not willing to listen but goad. Basically you are forcing a label on to people who don't want it and whole heartedly reject it.

"I've done my research." Is exactly what anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers et al say to justify their views. Coming on here and saying the same thing raises a red flag about just what kind of 'research' you've done on the subject.

It's already been pointed out upthread that Transwomen commit violent crime and rape at the same rate as other biological males.

Biological women need safe spaces.

I'm happy for TW to have their own spaces too, but they don't belong with women when women are vulnerable.

TreaterAnita, as a lifelong Labour voter I'd love to think common sense will prevail, but where will it come from?

Jezza and his chosen pronouns?
Holding Dawn Butler's jacket while she chucks real women under the bus?
Layla Moran looking into everyone's souls for us?
Will Eddie Izzard speak for us from the women only shortlist?

Right now, I am forced to conclude that to preserve our rights I have to not just not vote for Labour and the Lib Dems, I have to actively vote to keep them OUT. I hate it and I'd love to be wrong, but I don't see another choice.

Sorry, you're right, it is Latin. And what does cis mean, teawamtu? Indulge me.

My children are vaccinated, I did my research.
How are women's rights threatened by trans women?
And why, if I support trans women's rights, does that make me anti- women?
And why do you argue that you are supporters of women - then turn on women who do not share your views?

They're from Latin, Connie. While we're talking about research.

My views are as relevant as anyone else's. I for one do not feel my gender is threatened for being referred to as a cis woman.

Your gender isn't threatened, but most posters here do not believe in gender, as it's based on harmful stereotypes.

Trans means moving across, cis means unmoving. They are from the Greek language. Next.

Mldgebabe. I would very much appreciate the source of your statistics. I'm sure you would be very happy to supply that information here? Many thanks.

My views are as relevant as anyone else's. I for one do not feel my gender is threatened for being referred to as a cis woman.

@Connie68 yes of course you have dear. Anti vaxxers say the exact same thing. "I've done my research".

Cis is not the opposite of trans at all. As for being closed minded based on my user name. Does say how closed minded you are if you can not see the damage that is being done to women's rights. Doesn't seem you give a toss about women at all.

Does anyone really know the origins of basic words? How do you know that it wasn't a woman who said, hey, I'm different from men, I have a womb, I carry children, I am really 8mportnat and deserve a longer word?

Cis is the opposite of trans.

No it isn't.

So, trans women are victims of women who support them as women? Or are 'real' women victims of trans women? Sorry, I'm getting confused here.

Cis is a very insulting thing to call the many women who don't believe in gender especially binary gender . Get over it. Don't force your restrictive categorisation on other people

Statistically, transwomen pose exactly the same threat to women as men. This is a much higher threat than women pose to other women. It's just a fact. The average rapist gets off becuase he is such a nice man and she must surely be lying.

Transwomen who look and smell and sound like men also cause the same instinctive fear reaction in women, especially those who have already been abused. Now I know that many people thing a women's feelings and pain should be ignored but I don't see why.