Liz Truss criticised for saying she wants to protect "single-sex spaces and vulnerable women" re GRA in House of Commons

Blimey, just returned to this thread and seen that Connie's dramatic flounce post was directed at me.

Spending your Saturday bitching at anyone who threatens 'woman' (etymology, by the way, is 'wife of man', which then evolved into woman - man therefore came first) on a website seems rather pointless

Not sure whether she means individual women or the concept of womanhood in general here, but I won't apologise for "bitching" at people who threaten either, or agree that challenging that threat is pointless.

Lib Dem’s are just as bad if not worse

And the thing is, Labour are meant to understand class analysis so they have even less excuse than the other parties for getting it wrong.

I think women need the safety net of the welfare system much more than men do. Without that it is even harder for a woman with children to get away from an abusive husband, for a start. The question is, if Labour is so utterly misogynist at the moment as it appears to be, would it be interested in improving the welfare system? Especially when it is so keen to remove the few rights we have.

BernardBlacks and bd67th. It’s mind blowing isn’t it. I believe in the Labour movement too. I am a transplanted Northerner whose entire family is Labour back through the generations. I have been discussing this with them, and they love discussing politics! I have to say whether it’s this issue or Brexit ( remainers) there a quite a few family voters either abstaining or going to the Lib Dem’s.
I dread to think what they’d say about voting Tory purely on this issue but they may surprise me. Once you talk to people about Self ID and they start to see Piers Morgan and other mainstream media reporting disbelief turns to outrage at the injustice pretty quickly. Labour have got this wrong.

PP who are thinking that they might have to vote Tory: I never in my life thought I might have to consider doing just that.

And how astonishing that Connie flounced when pushed to justify their views eh?

What a surprise that was

I won’t be told who l can and can’t vote for. I won’t be shamed for voting to support women. I am still clinging on to my Labour membership in order to have a vote in the next Leadership election

I hear ya sister, this is exactly my position

It feels so weird to be a member of a party that I wouldn’t vote for

But I believe in the labour movement, and I believe political representation for working people is essential. So I keep paying my dues in the hope that one day the grownups will be in charge again

Just in case Connie comes back:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/up-to-half-of-trans-inmates-may-be-sex-offenders-26rz2crhs

I copied the refusal paragraphs here on this thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3720961-Enforcing-the-Equality-Act-the-law-and-role-of-the-Equality-and-Human-Rights-Commission-Equality-and-Human-Rights-Commission-Response-to-the-Committee-s-Tenth-Report-of-Session-2017-19

stumbled in

I noted yesterday that the EHRC also published a refusal to write a statutory code of practice to become legislation in favour of "guidleines". We all know how they work out.

This was in response to the inquiry that ran this year into enforcing the equality act. So the equalities office want a code but EHRC are refusing.

The two reports are here in reverse order: The latest pulished yesterday by EHRC is a response to the July 30th recommendations.

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/women-and-equalities-committee/inquiries/parliament-2017/enforcing-the-equality-act-17-19/publications/

"None of the other political parties are our allies in this either though."

As a traditional Labour voter, I cannot find anything which will make me vote for them at the next general election.

Well Connie almost half of transwomen in jail are there for sexual offences. Why do you think that they don't retain male criminality patterns and are safe to be treated as women in all circumstances?

I won’t be told who l can and can’t vote for. I won’t be shamed for voting to support women. I am still clinging on to my Labour membership in order to have a vote in the next Leadership election, but if push comes to shove and Liz Truss enacts legislation to protect women as a class then l am voting Tory.
It would be the first time in my life and l am not alone, l know other women thinking the same thing. I live in Jeremy Corbyns ward, the epicentre of the cult of Corbyn. There are women here that have been politically active for decades. Comrades of Jeremy that are aghast, these women walked the streets, knocked on doors, marched and protested alongside him. And for what ? We have been shown the hand, we cannot speak. We’ve had enough.

Yet another reason to love MN - always something new to learn from the knowledge of our members

Connie:
I would very much appreciate the source of your statistics. I'm sure you would be very happy to supply that information here? Many thanks

and

And I have done my research into this, extensively

Which is it? Do you want us to bring you the info, or have you done your research?

Another example of stereochemistry is thalidomide. The thalidomide compound can form as one of two structures that are mirror images of each other. One of these is therapeutic, the other caused harm to thousands of babies.

Late into the chemistry pedanticism but 'Trans means moving across, cis means unmoving' is wrong. Trans can mean moving - which is why it's used in constructs such as transplant, transport, transsexual - words denoting change. Theres no equivalent cis meaning unmoving - it would be redundant. What would a cisplant or cisport be?

In very specific cases, not general usage, trans/cis can mean on different sides or same side - as in alps or stereochemistry. The use of 'cis' in relation to gender is a false backconstruction. And don't forget, a cis and a trans isomer are fundamentally different chemistries. The best known example for lay people is cis fats v trans fats.

I’m an ‘unmoving woman’. I’m not fucking ‘’cis’ though.

Cis off.

Oops, Penny not Oenny!

I was pleased when Liz Truss was asked to take over the Equalities Minister role from Oenny Mordaunt.

I've been in touch with more than one Conservative MP and although their replies are always careful and measured, it is clear to me at least that they fully understand the need to protect single sex spaces while ensuring that transgender people also have suitable facilities.

Third spaces. Isn't that the sensible solution?

It would help if people could distinguish between ally/useful resource/bestie.

If I'm attacked, and someone hands me a shield, I don't first question whether I compromise my integrity by accepting a shield from someone whose political persuasion I may not share.
I take the shield, and I protect myself with it.
And I'm not under any political obligation to the person who helped me to defend myself.

Heartily sick of people doing more damage than good by confusing the welcome acceptance of a shield from a political adversary with any kind of endorsement of any other view they may hold.

Grow up. Women's rights matter more than this.

... With the next step usually being 'whatevs, you're all meanies on the wrong side of history, I'm off'.

connie ye talk shite, hen. "Woman" doesn't come from "wife of man", "woman" and "wife" both come from Old English "wifman". The spear counterpart term was "werman". Go back far enough and "man" meant "person", with the modifiers "wif" and "wer" to denote sex.

But hey, you did your research...

What threat to cis women do you think trans women are?

The same threat as men. A transwoman has a rape weapon built into their body and you expect me to trust them when they self-identify as unarmed. That's not going to happen. You expect me to be able to tell the difference between Karen White and a TW who means me no harm. The prison service couldn't get that right, so how am I meant to?