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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Trans chat

485 replies

Babyjakesmum · 16/10/2019 19:10

I haven't been on Mumsnet in a while, but have dropped back in to see what was going on when I heard about the sponsors dropping Mumsnet because of anti-trans hate. I expected it to be a storm in a tea cup.

But sadly, I have to say that I find the level of bitter hatred on here to be utterly breathtaking. I have trans people in my family. I have friends who have trans people, and the way they are being discussed here is simply appalling.

Being trans isn't something anyone takes lightly, or lives lightly either. It's is not mental illness, it is not an excuse to abuse children, it is not a passing fad. It is bloody hard on those who find themselves in that situation, and this sort of hate-fest of ignorance and accusation only makes their lives even harder.

I used to come on here to talk about my babies and life as a Mum, and it was supportive and safe space for me to talk openly about my feelings and experiences. It no longer feels safe for anyone. I don't think I will be coming back to be a regular again. I cannot comprehend what has become of the people on here for this level of narrow mindedness to be flourishing.

Make no mistake, I am an old school, campaigning, hard-bitten feminist, and have been since before half the people on here were born. I understand the feminist anti-trans arguments but I find all of it to be empty of any basis in reality. Trans people aren't lurking in changing rooms, trans people aren't after your kids or trying to undermine your own femininity. They are having a very hard time in life.

I know you can cite a handful of examples, but then there are always a handful of example of anything. One Karen White does not mean you write off all trans-people as criminals.

I would say to you to get to know an actual transperson and see what the reality is, except that I wouldn't want any vulnerable person subjected to this.... you also probably do already know a transperson somewhere in your life, but most don't wear a badge to tell you that because it's actually none of your business what clothes or pronouns someone chooses to use.

OP posts:
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TheChampagneGalop · 18/10/2019 18:42

Too bad OP didn't come back and answered my question. I still want to know what undermining someone's femininity means and why this is an issue for feminists.

SophoclesTheFox · 18/10/2019 18:37

I’m really confused as to what staying on topic for this thread would even look like.

Sackcloth and ashes, a promise to do better, and agreement that we are all actually very bad people?

Am genuinely Confused and not trying to be snarky, MNHQ.

zebrasdontwearbras · 18/10/2019 18:37

I'm keeping my kids away from the pomo po-faced stuff that is Grin - I regularly force-feed them episodes of Blackadder and Spaced.

zebrasdontwearbras · 18/10/2019 18:34

Honestly, the humourless, over-pronouned, po-faced pomo world our youngsters are now growing up in.

Whatever happened to the good old British humour? Sarcastic and piss-taking, the humour I grew up with in the 80s - Spitting Image, The Young Ones, Blackadder. I don't want to think what that humour would do to the young woke these days. I'm keeping my kids well away from it.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 18/10/2019 18:24

Honestly - who the fuck is complaining about such things and why are they taken seriously?

You know the answer to both of these.

Creepster · 18/10/2019 18:22

I stated what some of the obvious consequences of supporting transitioning have been so far, zebras.
Perhaps it was considered a generalization. They did not say which stricture I violated beyond repeating their desire for debate of the civil and constructive sort. Since I am not experienced in the formal rules of debate it is perhaps best if I lurk.

MockersthefeMANist · 18/10/2019 18:21

Purposeful derailing sounds like something Michelle of ze Resistance would do to stop Herr Flick taking the Fallen Madonna with the Big Boobies back to zer Fatherland.

zebrasdontwearbras · 18/10/2019 18:21

I'm also not sure that MN will be a better place without a bit Thigh talk, and the odd recipe. FGS do we have to completely lose our sense of humour because we are on FWR?

Hey ho - Friday night Wine for me. Cheers FWR wimmin.

VickyEadieofThigh · 18/10/2019 18:21

How are women supposed to respond to a scolding like the OP if the thread is still open to responses? Do we just thank the OP for it and issue long mea culpas?

This.

We get censored if we react angrily, or told by the OP "Aha! That proves I'm right".

We attempt to ask the OP questions, we get no answers.

So eventually, we get a bit silly (which hurts no-one). MN mods tell us off for it.

Honestly - who the fuck is complaining about such things and why are they taken seriously?

Alltheprettyseahorses · 18/10/2019 18:19

So Mumsnet no longer feels safe does it? Why does women having rights and engaging in peaceful, sensible discussion about those rights (as opposed to posing with weapons, sending death threats, punching women and so on) make people feel unsafe? It's pathetic tbh. People are being bombed in bloody war zones and starving to death while selfish, over-privileged snowflakes whine about feeling unsafe if someone says something that's basic common sense and totally inoffensive to boot. It boils my piss.

Anyway, I see no reason why a subset of men are meant to be so special they can override women's rights to safety, privacy, dignity, boundaries an actual acknowledgement as being human beings. The rules apply to them too.

zebrasdontwearbras · 18/10/2019 18:16

Creepster, for the life of me, I can't see what you said that broke guidelines. Generalisation?

LangCleg · 18/10/2019 18:10

Purposeful derailing isn't on - can we stop now? Thanks.

Is that one-way de-railing?

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 18/10/2019 18:07

Purposeful derailing isn't on - can we stop now? Thanks.

Could you please explain what constitutes a 'purposeful derailing'?
I only ask as no one who has had their posts deleted seems to have any emails from HQ explaining why?

BeMoreMagdalen · 18/10/2019 18:05

Lily, what constitutes a derail of a thread set up for the purpose of telling the women here they are very bad people? This is an honest question. If you don't want any more posts, then taking down the thread or closing it to further replies seems the best course. How are women supposed to respond to a scolding like the OP if the thread is still open to responses? Do we just thank the OP for it and issue long mea culpas?

Creepster · 18/10/2019 17:57

Oh dear! My civil and constructive statement has been removed.
I shall lurk more now instead of attempting to contribute to the civil and constructive 'debate' as I clearly do not understand the meaning of words.

LilyMumsnet · 18/10/2019 17:53

Hi folks

Purposeful derailing isn't on - can we stop now? Thanks.

TheChampagneGalop · 18/10/2019 17:47

Still wondering what the origin of the Thigh posters is, I must have missed something.

DanglyTasselsOfThigh · 18/10/2019 16:59

Datun no, not just that, I think they just hate us because we cannot uphold the twee!

We did make one friend but she ran away! ☹️

Datun · 18/10/2019 10:26

Thigh

Was it the gin soaked after-school wanking?

Creepster · 18/10/2019 06:17

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TabithasMumCaroline · 18/10/2019 05:40

Absolutely no idea why my post was deleted. Haven’t had an email.
I laughed at datun’s dad and the sage body-con advice, and then took issue with the ‘none of you know anyone trans’ tosh. Extensively.
It took me blardy ages. And if you happened to know me (I regularly name change since Jeffrey published my password and I had to spend all night berating myself that the guidance not to use your real email address and the same passwords for your online banking might have been quite sensible after all) would quite likely have outed me. So unless they are attempting to claim that they took it down for my own personal security, I have no idea why it was deleted.
I think I did end it with ‘Reality isn’t transphobic’. 🤷‍♀️

EmpressLesbianInChair · 18/10/2019 05:02

I’ve just read at the thread. Are Ikea objecting to you holding them to ransom for a moatful of sharks?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 18/10/2019 04:49

Did you insult their meatballs?

ThighThighOfthigh · 18/10/2019 04:16

Please help us, we're afraid. It's the Ikea thread, we've gone too far and we think Sweden's coming for us. I may have mentioned the war.

TinselAngel · 17/10/2019 23:20

Blame the Patriarchy, not the Thightriarchy.