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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Trans chat

485 replies

Babyjakesmum · 16/10/2019 19:10

I haven't been on Mumsnet in a while, but have dropped back in to see what was going on when I heard about the sponsors dropping Mumsnet because of anti-trans hate. I expected it to be a storm in a tea cup.

But sadly, I have to say that I find the level of bitter hatred on here to be utterly breathtaking. I have trans people in my family. I have friends who have trans people, and the way they are being discussed here is simply appalling.

Being trans isn't something anyone takes lightly, or lives lightly either. It's is not mental illness, it is not an excuse to abuse children, it is not a passing fad. It is bloody hard on those who find themselves in that situation, and this sort of hate-fest of ignorance and accusation only makes their lives even harder.

I used to come on here to talk about my babies and life as a Mum, and it was supportive and safe space for me to talk openly about my feelings and experiences. It no longer feels safe for anyone. I don't think I will be coming back to be a regular again. I cannot comprehend what has become of the people on here for this level of narrow mindedness to be flourishing.

Make no mistake, I am an old school, campaigning, hard-bitten feminist, and have been since before half the people on here were born. I understand the feminist anti-trans arguments but I find all of it to be empty of any basis in reality. Trans people aren't lurking in changing rooms, trans people aren't after your kids or trying to undermine your own femininity. They are having a very hard time in life.

I know you can cite a handful of examples, but then there are always a handful of example of anything. One Karen White does not mean you write off all trans-people as criminals.

I would say to you to get to know an actual transperson and see what the reality is, except that I wouldn't want any vulnerable person subjected to this.... you also probably do already know a transperson somewhere in your life, but most don't wear a badge to tell you that because it's actually none of your business what clothes or pronouns someone chooses to use.

OP posts:
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HorseWithNoFucksToGive · 18/10/2019 21:31

AFAIK they are deleting anything on FWR that could be considered inflammatory.

I had a post deleted today and I'm fucking lovely.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 18/10/2019 21:27

How would one re-rail a thread like this? By agreeing with the OP that we're all terrible people?

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 18/10/2019 21:01

I also wonder if one of the said stunning and brave has got a job here.

Or a certain Niece has her job back.

TheChampagneGalop · 18/10/2019 20:48

To clarify, if it's about trans issues. I don't know what the stance is about other topics on FWR.

RufusthebewiIderedreindeer · 18/10/2019 20:46

have been strongly warned that comedic relief can be considered inflammatory on FWR

Just ridiculous...

zebrasdontwearbras · 18/10/2019 20:44

I love you Thighs - and lets have equal opportunities for all please - the Thighs intervene all over mumsnet, why should fwr be missed out. Discrimination Wink

TheChampagneGalop · 18/10/2019 20:36

I have been strongly warned that comedic relief can be considered inflammatory on FWR. (Ikea is a terrible place to navigate, that's true though)

DanglyTasselsOfThigh · 18/10/2019 20:27

The thing is, if we are not allowed any comedic relief we will then be left with the facts. None of us are enjoying the facts! We are not enjoying these in Thighland either, so we jump in and try to lighten the load a little! In our world we just want to support each other and be happy without judgement! If we feel sure a thread has already died it's natural death we will come in and that's all that's happened here!

RufusthebewiIderedreindeer · 18/10/2019 20:19

How is

‘Ikea is trying to kill me’

Inflammatory?

(I know you dont know champagne Grin)

TheChampagneGalop · 18/10/2019 20:15

AFAIK they are deleting anything on FWR that could be considered inflammatory.

FadingStar · 18/10/2019 19:57

Datun I am not sure. I can well believe MNHQ are still taking pathetic complaints from the stunning and brave on Twitter. I also wonder if one of the said stunning and brave has got a job here.

Datun · 18/10/2019 19:50

The thing is, fading, I'm wondering who is reporting posts to HQ? It can't possibly be the OP? How would you report people talking amongst themselves whilst they are waiting, very patiently, for you to return?

It doesn't make any sense.

I don't get it.

FadingStar · 18/10/2019 19:46

Datun yet again you say everything so eloquently and just what I'm thinking!! Everyone else too I'd wager, How the hell do you do that? I remember a poster years ago called Usual who was the same....reading her posts was like someone reading my mind and I knew it was her before I even saw her name.

DanglyTasselsOfThigh · 18/10/2019 19:45

I have read all until now and honestly thought the thread was done with!

So sorry if I have contributed to anything of that nature, was not my intention or I doubt that of anyone else. Sad

Datun · 18/10/2019 19:40

Purposeful derailing isn't on - can we stop now? Thanks.

I'm not being funny or nothin', but how is it at all possible to derail a thread where the OP has bogged off and is no longer participating?

There is no 'rail' for us to be on. There is no dialogue, discourse, debate, exchange of ideas, commentary.

There is nothing. Just a vacuum. What are we supposed to be doing, saying, debating?

BadSun · 18/10/2019 19:39

The problem is that in the context of this debate, there's a thin line between passionate defence of women's rights and smug superiority/discrimination. Lots of people on here like to ride that line or just happily jump across it. That's why there are always plenty of post deletions on threads like this. And it doesn't help the debate at all because people on the outside looking in are more likely to focus their attention on the offensive posts than the rational and useful ones.

StrangeLookingParasite · 18/10/2019 19:37

Just re this:
the sponsors dropping Mumsnet because of anti-trans hate

Yeah, that is in fact false.

FadingStar · 18/10/2019 19:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

NonHypotheticalLurkingParent · 18/10/2019 19:24

Sadly, I don’t think OP is coming back, All they got from us is an idiom for - jog on. There’s tastier prey for the outrage vampires to feed off.

RufusthebewiIderedreindeer · 18/10/2019 18:58

MNHQ

I would be grateful if you could confirm if vickys post at 18:21 is now the case for the FWR board

I would also be grateful if you could confirm if this is the case for every single other board

It should be relatively simple as they are yes/no answers

Finally could someone advise me why it is impossible to tell posters WHY they are being deleted...dead easy to tell the reporter but not the poster

Thank you

zebrasdontwearbras · 18/10/2019 18:56

"Allo 'allo wouldn't be allowed nowadays would it? Laughing at Nazis and the Gestapo - you're told to punch them or milkshake them now via the medium of twitter.

Michelleoftheresistance · 18/10/2019 18:54

Caring about womens rights = transphobic.

Not unconditionally agreeing that males turn into females = transphobic.

End of. As I was told on another thread today, the only way women can NOT be transphobic is to keep their opinions to themselves, shut up and do as they are told by those who know better.

That is the definition 'transphobia' now consists of. It's that simple.

Am I prepared to surrender women's rights and agree to pretend to a belief I don't hold, that I think damages everyone in society? No.

If you need to call me names about that, crack on. I think there are better and other ways to sort this out.

Michelleoftheresistance · 18/10/2019 18:50

Mockers I haven't purposefully derailed anything! Shock You'll get me in trouble with HQ!

zebrasdontwearbras · 18/10/2019 18:49

OK the topic seems to be that mumsnetters have turned into big fat meanies.

OP - I utterly and totally refute this.

I care about women's rights to single sex spaces - be it the new fad for placing male sex offenders in women's prisons, or allowing people with penises to go in the women's changing rooms with my 11yr old daughter.

I seriously care about the reinforcement of gender stereotypes in our schools, and the massive increase in children wanting to transition, when they are way below the age of informed consent - and have no understanding of the medical pathway they are being started on.

This video was posted on another thread - I think I'll put it here too - because as many people should see this as possible.

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 18/10/2019 18:48

I don't want to think what that humour would do to the young woke these days

Only Fools and Horses and Friends get complaints, I imagine something like the young ones would be classed as indecent and Spitting image wouldn't be allowed at all on Television.

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