Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Trans chat

485 replies

Babyjakesmum · 16/10/2019 19:10

I haven't been on Mumsnet in a while, but have dropped back in to see what was going on when I heard about the sponsors dropping Mumsnet because of anti-trans hate. I expected it to be a storm in a tea cup.

But sadly, I have to say that I find the level of bitter hatred on here to be utterly breathtaking. I have trans people in my family. I have friends who have trans people, and the way they are being discussed here is simply appalling.

Being trans isn't something anyone takes lightly, or lives lightly either. It's is not mental illness, it is not an excuse to abuse children, it is not a passing fad. It is bloody hard on those who find themselves in that situation, and this sort of hate-fest of ignorance and accusation only makes their lives even harder.

I used to come on here to talk about my babies and life as a Mum, and it was supportive and safe space for me to talk openly about my feelings and experiences. It no longer feels safe for anyone. I don't think I will be coming back to be a regular again. I cannot comprehend what has become of the people on here for this level of narrow mindedness to be flourishing.

Make no mistake, I am an old school, campaigning, hard-bitten feminist, and have been since before half the people on here were born. I understand the feminist anti-trans arguments but I find all of it to be empty of any basis in reality. Trans people aren't lurking in changing rooms, trans people aren't after your kids or trying to undermine your own femininity. They are having a very hard time in life.

I know you can cite a handful of examples, but then there are always a handful of example of anything. One Karen White does not mean you write off all trans-people as criminals.

I would say to you to get to know an actual transperson and see what the reality is, except that I wouldn't want any vulnerable person subjected to this.... you also probably do already know a transperson somewhere in your life, but most don't wear a badge to tell you that because it's actually none of your business what clothes or pronouns someone chooses to use.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
ErrolTheDragon · 17/10/2019 16:03

Can we take it, then, Lily, that in fact no-one actually told OP to kill herself, her claim that they did was ridiculous hyperbole?

Or possibly a retaliatory personal attack on the poster who ill-advisedly used a common idiom? Of the two, I know which I'd be more upset by.

BarbaraStrozzi · 17/10/2019 15:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MNHQ
LilyMumsnet · 17/10/2019 15:54

Hi folks,

We deleted a post as a personal attack and we'd have deleted it from any thread, regardless of topic.

Can we move on now? It's derailing the conversation and if we have to make more deletions, we may have to consider taking this thread down.

Thanks. Flowers

ErrolTheDragon · 17/10/2019 15:49

As someone who grew up by the seaside, it's possible to take a long walk on a short pier by making U-turns.
But also that no one advised to take a long walk off a short pier ever took it remotely as any sort of threat, merely a mild and unsweary 'bugger off'.

2BthatUnnoticed · 17/10/2019 15:41

Oh sorry didn’t realise, MN only see if you @MNHQ tag I think, but these days they don’t seem to come on threads

Dangerfloof · 17/10/2019 15:40

Good question and strong replies very encouraging. Its brill that we can all talk with passion on both sides
Umm is this more sarcasm? Asking for a friend

Apollo440 · 17/10/2019 15:35

Yep. I made that comment. Clearly their interpretation was purely for screen shotting and creating a false equivalence to common TRA behaviour ('die in a grease fire'). If that is the case there is really no level these activists won't go to to discredit GC opponents. Because of course they have no defensible arguments and rely entirely on preventing a debate in the first place.

HorseWithNoFucksToGive · 17/10/2019 15:34

That's a big fuck off "NO" from me too.

(tl;dr - did anyone even bother to ask for their definition of "woman"? Pointless, non?)

2BthatUnnoticed · 17/10/2019 15:28

Apollo someone said “take a long walk off a short pier”... she later clarified she had assumed OP could swim but if not, to wear a life jacket.

This was interpreted as an instruction to commit suicide Shock

Apollo440 · 17/10/2019 15:07

I really would like an answer to the very serious accusation that the OP was told to kill themselves. Either the poster who made the accusation should be banned or if it was a false accusation then the OP should be banned. This cannot be brushed over.

AbsintheFriends · 17/10/2019 15:04

I can't believe that post by TabithasMumCaroline is gone! It was quite long and really intelligently and eloquently written and I cannot think for the life of me what it could have contained that was offensive.

Apart from the truth, of course. Nothing so transphobic as reality.

Datun · 17/10/2019 15:02

No.

ALittleBitofVitriol · 17/10/2019 14:58

This is all just so silly.

We would genuinely love to hear a convincing argument from the TRA side. Don't you think it would be easier to just slip into blissful ignorance and not worry about male rapists in women's prisons/teenagers mutilating their bodies/women having bones broken by males in their sports/every fucking pervert having plausible deniability to be creepy in women's spaces?

I have been watching this debate for years now, and it always always goes the same way. Be nice. There's no logic, no reason, no balance. No one is nice to women who dare to say 'hang on that doesn't seem right...'

OP et al, you're building castles in the sky and expecting women to break holding them up.
And throwing your toys out of the pram when the mummies say no.

NO.

Qcng · 17/10/2019 14:56

All I can say is,
I blame Flora.

OkayGo · 17/10/2019 14:50

NellieEllie you said exactly what I have been struggling to put in to words.

AutumnRose1 · 17/10/2019 14:50

I asked for advice on the "pronouns" thread and now it's gone. The reason given is the original post, which I thought was ... asking for advice on what you do when your workplace introduces this. I'm so confused right now.

Datun · 17/10/2019 14:37

This is ridiculous. It's as though someone is using the ban hammer in the attic, and they've accidentally dropped it, and as it clatters down the stairs, it hits everyone on the way to the landing.

FadingStar · 17/10/2019 14:37

It is ridiculous Datun. Hard bitten my arse.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 17/10/2019 14:36

The crushing irony of truly believing that you can use femininity as a tool with which to scold feminists.

I got mansplained the difference between a consultation and consulting. And he got it wrong.

It was embarrassing for him. Much like this is for OP.

FadingStar · 17/10/2019 14:35

Wait....the whole 'being told to kill myself' was in reference to a phrase kids have said from Year Dot? Oh my days 😂😂😂

Datun · 17/10/2019 14:35

And my comment, fading, wasn't even addressed to the OP, it was to someone else entirely!

FadingStar · 17/10/2019 14:34

Yes was very surprised to see a feminist accuse other feminists of giving a shit about femininity. That's basic stuff.

zebrasdontwearbras · 17/10/2019 14:33

Take a long walk off a short pier is as old as the hills, and has never meant "kill yourself" - it's a mild "sod off" IMO.

I read this whole thread last night, before any deletions - nobody told the OP to kill herself.

Datun · 17/10/2019 14:32

The crushing irony of truly believing that you can use femininity as a tool with which to scold feminists.

anniemac1 · 17/10/2019 14:30

Good question and strong replies very encouraging. Its brill that we can all talk with passion on both sides.

Swipe left for the next trending thread