Genital preferences

“Incel logic” is what we have here absolutely.

I had the misfortune to have an AGP person in my social group for some time.

Some of his thought processes and cognitive dissonance and the extent to which he performed mental handstands and convolutions to “argue” that women (and he didn’t want alternative types despite looking ridiculous and being an underemployed needy loser himself - he wanted “slim normal looking mainstream women”) should and did “want to have weird sex with him in which they called him a woman and dominated him” were very, very frightening.

He seemed to have this theory that women were actually repressed and most physically attractive women actually would be really secretly up for weird fetishy sex in which they peg an obese middle aged bloke in a tutu.

It’s just evil socially conservative society and transphobia that keeps us back

I’d love an l&b movement. If only because about 90% of the shitty biphobic comments have been ‘jokes’ from gay men. Maybe it’s just because I used to hang around with a lot of gay guys but they could be really nasty about bi people.

I’ve also seen people online say that we should call it bigenderal or replace the B in LGBT with a P for pan. There’s some nasty biphobia that has come around lately.

I concur. I suggest #BwiththeL because we and lesbians are facing the redefinition of our sexuality and removal of our sexual boundaries, both imposed by TPAs.

Camping I'm bi but my sexual response to men and women is different. Back when I was less traumatised and hence less observant of secondary sex characteristics, I found myself responding to a person I was reading as "female" as though they were male. I was properly confused until I realised that the person I was looking at was male. My eyes might have been fooled briefly but the rest of me wasn't.

My genital preference is for my male partner to have the penis he was born with which IMO makes him male (along with his chromosomes of course).

Straight men are not going to change their sexual preferences.

Wanting them, or gay women, to do so is another classic example of male entitlement.

The TRA mindset seems to think that just because you might like someone's external appearance due to clothing and make-up, you must like and be willing to have sex with them once the clothes come off as well - otherwise you are transphobic.

It's pretty dumb because trans stuff aside, I've met men that I've felt sort of attracted to, but when the clothes come off, something about their body doesn't quite appeal - maybe excess back or chest hair, or even too little of it. I'm really put off by men who shave their chest or pubic hair. I love a certain amount and type as it feels masculine. Similarly, I might not find their penis attractive. The look and shape of male and female genitals do matter for sexual attraction - for me anyway.

I'm not looking for perfection, but how a person looks naked is just as important to me as to how they look clothed, and I don't date men (or women) if I don't feel aroused by their physical body.

The same would apply to a trans person. Even if I might feel attracted to their external appearance, once the clothes come off and the genitals don't match (a transman's fake penis can never compare to the real thing), then whatever sexual desire I've had up go that point will disappear.

It's incel logic to demand people put aside their subconscious attraction to specific bodies and guilt them to have sex with someone they do not find attractive. No one is entitled to sex, including trans people. If I can reject natal men based on their body, I can do the same for trans folk.

Bezalelle - reassessing it - yes, it really does.

That graphic has the visual vocabulary of propaganda posters. Funny, that.

I (straight woman) am working with a Transwomen at the moment who I find wildly sexy, and I am aware that I am responding to her as a man. She is taut, muscular, and relishes a ‘tomboy ‘ presentation as a woman.

Meanwhile I have a lesbian friend who has settled down with a Transman.

It seems to be about sex, pheromones, ‘maleness’ and ‘femaleness’ rather than ‘masculinity ‘ or ‘femininity ‘.

We need to start some kind of free course in this stuff for confused millenials

Oh please run one. As a bi woman I get fed up of explaining this shit to people. It’s worse than back in the 90s when I came out and everyone thought bisexuals were all sluts or into threesomes.

I’ve also seen people online say that we should call it bigenderal or replace the B in LGBT with a P for pan. There’s some nasty biphobia that has come around lately.

Agree @TheProdigalKittensReturn

That's the true place of 'gender' imo - it's something playful and subjectively sexy - a woman in a sharp trouser suit - a long haired man in eyeliner. It's not there to convince us the woman is actually male or vice versa.

We need to start some kind of free course in this stuff for confused millenials.

Oh god yeah prodigalkittens, every man I’ve ever had a crush on (and the only man I’ve ever dated, who is currently making us lunch!) has had long hair. I blame Jason Issacs as Malfoy and all the drop dead gorgeous Elves in Lord of the Rings when I was growing up. Doesn’t mean I’m attracted to women with long hair though. The hair is just part of the package

Equally, short hair and a smart suit on a woman = excellent. Penis on a woman = not excellent.

I'm all for the long hair and eyeliner on men! Many women are. Boobs, not so much.

The mix and match approach to genitals in relation to secondary sexual characteristics, otoh, doesn't work for me. I'm guessing I'm not the only bisexual for whom that's the case.

Agreed. Mix and match of gendered accoutrements and sex is one thing - eyeliner and a well-fitting dress on a 100% male body is fine (and often much better than fine). Mix and match of secondary sexual characteristics and genitals, however, is quite a specialised type of pornography and really does nothing for me (because I am not a man with a weird fetish).

Regarding the rather unpleasant graphic, I assumed the yellow one was FtM, ie a woman with phaloplasty and the green MtF, ie a man who'd been castrated and had his penis surgically flayed and inverted. I take it this was not the intent.

Even in cartoon form my brain accurately sexes not from genitals, but from whole human beings.

I like curry and i like ice cream. That doesn't mean i want them mixed together.

The yellow one basically has “perfect pornstar hourglass proportions with a penis attached”.

Do they do hands and hips surgery? cause that’s what’s needed to look like the yellow one.

Another bisexual chiming in to say that I'm attracted to whole people rather than just their disembodied genitals. I do have some penis related preferences, mind, but in the end no penis is any use to me unless I'm attracted to the man it's attached to.

(Pretty much all vulvas are lovely, imo)

The mix and match approach to genitals in relation to secondary sexual characteristics, otoh, doesn't work for me. I'm guessing I'm not the only bisexual for whom that's the case.

In Toorahtoorahaye's posted "Feminists against Transphobia" pic, the bodies of yellow and green don't match the genitals. Yellow has the hip-waist-shoulder ratios of an hourglass adult female, not of a male with breast implants. Green has the hip-waist-shoulder ratios of a "dad bod" male, not a female post-mastectomy. It's as if the artist used a female model for yellow and a male for green, then just swapped the genitals.

If this graphic reflects what transitioners think happens to your body when you take cross-sex hormones, 1) they're going to be sorely disappointed, and 2) no wonder they think that you can't tell a clothed person's sex just by looking at them. Images like that perpetuate the delusion that sex can be changed when it can't.

And speaking as someone who gets referred to as having a 'Male brain' just because I like sex so much

Lots of women love sex and can often have higher sex drives than their male sexual partners....I'm wondering whether people have described you"having a male brain" because you are open to lots of 'casual sex'? I'd say that women, generally, are not as promiscuous as men, or if they are it comes with more 'baggage'.

Exactly. I'm bisexual - not two types of genitals sexual. Not particularly into disembodied sexual organs of any type (not envy)

It's the totality of the person including their sex which makes them irresistible.

I am genital phobic I suppose. I find genitals quite an unattractive body part. Whether they're male or female.

I think most quick categorisation of people along sex lines is limiting.

I don't understand what you mean by quick categorisation of people along sex lines.
Limiting in what way?

I also don't understand how the enjoyment of sex equates to male brain.
Men do tend to have higher sex-drives but that doesn't mean that a woman with a high sex drive has a male brain.