“He makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up” - warning signs you have observed

I used to volunteer at a charity and they’d have prisoners in doing community work at the end of their sentences. They had murderers, gun runners, drug importers, you name it.

I met several murderers. There was one old fella in particular who’d been inside for 30 odd years who was quite friendly. Only two ever got my hairs standing on end. One was a drug dealer who was aggressive and cocky. The other, also a drug dealer I think, was just horrible. He made me want to run as soon as I clocked him. He wasn’t unpleasant, there was just something about him, a barely contained malevolence I couldn’t put my finger on, a proper predatory type. I refused to go in again until he left. I think he got recalled for something or other.

Then a few years ago I was in Salisbury with DP visiting her late dad. We were in the park with my dog and DP went to the public loos. This bloke came over with his dog and started talking to me about it. You know when you just subtly back away from someone, I was doing that, and my dog, who was usually all wagging and excitable was backing away. Then he started in about his dog whining. He said, ‘it sounds like a woman being raped.’ If I hadn’t been waiting for DP I’d have legged it. I felt like it was a warning. I still feel a cold sick feeling remembering him.

Also, works for both online and real life, someone who tries to separate you from the group and get you by yourself in order to continue what was formerly a group conversation. I see inappropriate DMs as sort of the online version of this and have had them here from TRAs.

There was one recently that read like an Emily Howard skit from someone who was almost immediately banned, it was all "It's so nice to talk to a girl about girl things". Not sexual as such, just weird and creepy.

I think that's sort of the key here, women are trained to override our "that's weird and creepy" responses because give him a chance and blah blah and honestly, no, if you don't want to then don't. Your first job is always to protect yourself and if as a result of that someone who's making you uncomfortable doesn't get to continue interacting with you then oh well, that's just too bad.

I honestly think this is instinct and you're probably never going to get a list of things to watch out for, because your own discomfort is actually the thing you should be paying attention to and acting on. That being said, The Gift Of Fear lists some things that men who're up to no good tend to do like boundary testing and forced teaming that you can learn to notice and consciously respond to. In fact you can start practicing here, because it's very common for TRAs who show up here to try the forced teaming. There was one who I haven't seen since I came back who had a cycle of forced teaming attempts and then lashing out when they didn't work that you could have set your clock by.

Bloody app ate my paragraphs!!!

A recent one for me is a friend of my DS. I feel actually feel bad about it as he's only 8, but holy shit my internal sirens are screeching when I'm around him. Some of his questionable actions/traits are quite observable, like a couple of times I gently told him off he would parrot back what I had said to him but using his own words, almost like dodging the row and placing himself on my side agreeing with me, does that make sense? There are a few other 'issues' that just set my senses tingling...It's beyond just typical kid naughtiness stuff. Some of my DS's other mates can be absolute hellers at times and can behave far FAR worse...but this child is manipulative in a way that's beyond sly. I can't quite put words to it. And terrifying to think that the older he gets, the more he may hone those behaviours.

I have some kittens and while he wasn't overtly rough with them, he held them ever so slightly 'wrong' each time, despite being explained to several times how best to interact with them. I saw him just tip them slightly backwards or angled sideways enough to get them to struggle just the tiniest bit and I could FEEL his enjoyment from doing it. You could see it in his eyes!

I've always got DC friends over, and I do keep an eye because kids can be accidentally or unknowingly rough, but not even with a gang if preschoolers did I feel I had to watch them so hawk-like as I did him. I felt genuinely scared to let him be alone with them for even a second. I ended up bringing them all to my room rather than take that risk. Again, no real concrete reason but an almost visceral reaction to the thought of it.

I feel dreadful admitting to thinking this about a young kid, but I'm not having him over here again. I feel so...strangely uncomfortable in his presence. I've worked in a school for 10 years and not ever had a feeling like this about a child. And I'll say again, some of DS other mates can be hard work (as can DS!!) and there's one or two I have to brace myself for a play date with, but every time this kid is over I feel like I just need him out of the house and far away from me and mine.

I had some undermining experiences when I was younger, and nowadays I don’t waste time wondering what is setting off my radar I just get myself out of there fast.

I have no idea whether my radar is accurate or if I’m being ridiculous.

On the Myers Briggs profile I score higher on intuition than on sensing. I have impressions of things rather than being able to give a blow by blow account. I’d make a terrible sports commentator or witness because I cant seem to process the details.

I pay more attention to what’s happening to my body than to what signs other people are giving off. So I’ve nothing useful to add to the thread, except to agree with @tectonicplates

thegullfromhull Palms backwards, elbows bent slightly away from the body as if his hands are in his pockets even though they aren't, aka the posture known to Urban Dictionary as "air lats"?

It's a dominance stance that men adopt to try to make themselves look bigger and more intimidating.

If there is a weakness or vulnerability in the defence system of a person/s or organisation, a predator will exploit it.

Bundy once said he "could tell a victim by the way she walked down the street, the tilt of her head, the manner in which she carried herself, etc . . ."

He knew who to target.

I haven't read the whole thread but I see micrpexpressios have been mentioned. I'm sure these types of uber subtle cues that you don't even register consciously are key to that tingly spidey sense feeling that you get when you encounter a wrong'un. I'm sure that if these people's reactions and expressions and body language could be taped and played back in slo mo there would be clear, observable markers for creepy fucks.

Ted Bundy did that also by feigning broken limbs and asking for help.

He did. And I bet some of those women thought, "why don't you ask a man for help" when he asked them to come to his car. But they were too polite and disarmed to say no to a charming man with a plaster cast who asked them for help.

I think I do have a rubbish radar. Remember a late conference with counsel was dark when we came out client and I headed to his car he was giving me lift. Heard thundering footsteps was the barrister running up to us and asked client to go ahead as we had to discuss a technical point. Barrister said “Jesus Christ cannot believe you were going to get into a car with him”

Have you pondered @MsTswift though that perhaps you didn’t have a physical response / gut reaction because they’re probably not in ‘attack mode’ by the point that they need your services? Therefore give off less warning signals?

I have met rapists and murderers through my work when I did criminal law got no alarm bells most of time perfectly ordinary dull people - or I have a crap radar which is quite possible

Better to be impolite than unsafe.

This x 1000

Took me a couple of decades of adulthood to get the hang of it, though

People invading my body space, I hate that.

I have had this twice in recent times and both I can still feel how uncomfortable it made me. One was at a firestation open day, I was with my children and a man on his own was staring at my children, i can't explain it but it was almost like he was stalking his prey, he may have well as licked his lips - utterly gross and we left immediately. I just shuddered remembering this.

The other instance was on holiday and a really friendly older gentleman spoke to me and the children, it was the way he touched my hand and spoke to the children - made me feel so uncomfortable, thankfully we left that day.

I don’t think people here are making assumptions based on people’s appearances or hobby choices. (Like the terribly sad Christopher Jeffries case) I think here we’re talking about something different, physical responses that override normal judgement.

Hmm not sure about this - look at that slightly odd teacher who got pinned for the poor girl in Bristol’s murder because he had funny hair and was abit eccentric. My godmother had a dog walking friend turned out to be Dennis Nielsen. She found him to be a pleasant chap.

On Fridays I work a longer day and DH picks up the kids. One evening it was later than usual and their were fewer people around (about 6pm). I was in one part of the building and walked over a walkway to the buildings where the lifts were. There was a man waiting as well, maybe mid-thirties, tall, fair-hairs,,fairly pleasant looking who smiled at me in a friendly way. It’s weird because all I could think was, “I’m not getting in a lift with him!” and fled and made it to the carpark by another, circuitous route.

I have no idea whether he was a perfectly nice man and I overreacted for no reason or whether it was a valid, instinctive, response but it was very strange.

gloriousred with your current colleague, you say “ he's never given me any cause for concern“, but he HAS, eg you describe at least one good reason for your concern, the way and frequency that he looks at you. Your H has also reminded you that you were right about the past colleague of your H’s.

I started a new job this year, it involves working with very poor and often very vulnerable people. A few days into the job I had to interview a man, he had his new born grandchild in his arms and was putting on a display of OTT happy families. My blood ran cold I was freezing and had to leave the room as I became very aware I was possibly going to faint or throw up. I just felt like I needed to run. Long story short, my colleague took over the interview but I had to go on and do a thorough background check on him. Yes, convicted rapist of two teenage girls (some other charges not brought to court), possession and distribution of indecent materials and carrying a weapon. He had served a sentence, not that long tbh, and he was there - in front of me happy as Larry and holding a small baby who he was potentially living with. In a room surrounded by other vulnerable people and of course kids. That was my first encounter of a man like this and unfortunately not my last. I've never had such a physical reaction to a person before or since.