“He makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up” - warning signs you have observed

@AnyOldPrion

"I had a wonderful, protected childhood that sadly left me very open to abuse. Though oddly, only in relationships, not one-off attacks."

Same , 100%.

@bd67th no, not air lats.
Just palms that face completely backwards, when walking or standing naturally.

Ted Bundy was a liar, as most sexual predators are.
He, like other predators, was opportunistic and tried his trickery on whatever women came in his way. He had no special talent to identify marks. He was one of the charming sociopaths who had perfected the "nice guy" facade.

According to a friend who's a consultant psychiatrist, glasses with yellow tinted lenses are a warning sign that all is not right.

I'm actually going to get a pair with a yellow tint, the reason is they block out bluelight. I have an eye condition that means night driving has become increasingly hard, and someone recommended blue light blocking lenses.

I'll make sure I don't wear them near any psychiatrists.

I got attacked by a taxi driver the other day and I got him to stop several blocks before my house because I knew something was wrong (that's when he got out of the taxi and came after me). But what? I think it was the way he was moving his head, kind of tense and distracted? He was driving a bit erratically, but that's not uncommon. There was a woman at a bus stop, and he stared at her, only for a moment, but kinda mean? It's weird how I knew.

Disturbing yet illuminating thread. I have to say for me the one I get the most when dealing with creeps is the standing too close thing. The few sociopaths I've dealt with in life have all made me feel very clastrophobic.

"Forced teaming is a tactic used by manipulators to make them appear to have as much as possible in common with their intended victims to gain their confidence."

"Repeatedly using “we” or other words and phrases indicating affinity or close association when interacting with intended victims is a strong indicator of forced teaming, particularly when contrasting terms such as “they” and terms of derision such “outsiders” are used to characterize those who might recognize and oppose manipulation."
opencda.com/?p=16873

q

Would someone mind explaining forced teaming?

Barracker your post gave me chills.

The more people who say it the better! This is one thing that you really can learn to spot, which is what the OP was asking for.

When men say things like that, that's boundary testing. They're looking to see how you react, and if you try to control your own discomfort and go into awkward laughing and trying to be nice mode then they interpret that as meaning they can probably get away with escalating. What they seem to be looking for is a response where it's clear that the potential victim is uncomfortable but it's also clear that she's second guessing herself and doesn't feel able to push back or extricate herself from the situation.

Yes, exactly this. Sorry I missed your post but that's exactly what I was talking about with mine.

The saying inappropriate things that make your skin crawl as people have mentioned is I think frequently used by a predator when they (he) have sized up someone as a potential victim (perhaps by your walk, like Bundy)

If they are going to prey on you they need you to be receptive up until the point they attack you, and also compliant and predictable. They need to get you into a situation where they are in control. I believe they deliberately say these type of things because they know you will feel uncomfortable and either that's enough for them for a cheap thrill, or they want to know how far they can push you before you resist, and how likely you are to say something or end the encounter when you are uncomfortable. It often goes along with forced teaming or other ingratiating behaviour so you doubt yourself and ignore your discomfort.

Most men care about the safety of some women, it's what they do or are willing to allow to be done to the other ones that's the problem.

This. If you want to see this in action, it's illuminating to argue with them about it in newspaper comment threads.

Can I just say that this kind of thread is exactly what FWR is for. I will be extremely displeased if any comments vanish.

Yes, what others have said rings true to me too.

When a guy assaulted me in the street, I knew from the first second I saw him that he was a predator. In fact, as soon as I caught sight of him I walked very fast - I was on my way to catch public transport so had reason to be moving quickly anyway, but I went as fast as I could without running. Normally, I enjoyed the walk. I went fast enough to cut him off at a level crossing. I thought that would be deterrent enough, I was wrong. What was it that signalled predator to me? Situationally he didn't fit, I walked that way often and had never seen him. He popped out from nowhere. He was focussed and dogged.

Dh is actually really good at reading people and putting boundaries in. He has a family member who gives him the creeps. Many others write it off as socially unaware/asd type of thing, but - though that may be a factor - it doesn't make him not-dangerous. He's made really inappropriate comments to young female children (in the vein of 'why won't you be nice to me, it's not like I'm going to rape you!') and always tries to position himself next to the younger women. He nearly followed me home once when he happened to see me on the street.
After dh and I were married and had a daughter, he didn't know where we lived. Until another family member took it upon herself to being him around as a surprise. My dh lost his shit, absolutely furious!

One thing that I tend to be able to spot is the arrogant, condescending shit-talker. My mum seemed to attract these like flies. One said he was just like Jesus and, very soon after marrying my mum, met his soul mate in a bar
It's that fakeness that someone else said, they are trying to dupe/manipulate you. These guys like the feel of power over someone they deem weaker, and they invariably turn out to be shitbags.

Most men care about the safety of some women, it's what they do or are willing to allow to be done to the other ones that's the problem.

what really chilled me is that they knew he was dangerous and warned the women they cared about not to be alone with him but apparently women who they didn't have a preexisting relationship with were fair game, or at least not important enough to be worth protecting or cutting off their relationship with the predator.

That reminds me of Dr Jessica Eaton encouraging us to stop using the rhetorical technique of 'What if it was your mother/sister/daughter?' because a decent bloke should give a shit about violence against any women, not just the ones he has a personal investment in.

@Cecilandsnail Out of interest have you met this child's parents, and if so what are they like?

It really is something in the eyes, and you can see it even in photos.

And yes, the person who we were deleted for being a bit too pointed in our criticisms of in the other thread has it, that look about the eyes. Not even trying to hide it either, in that person's case the game seems to be being as obvious as possible and then manipulating others into a position where they can't admit that they see it.

If anyone ever meets a person like that irl my advice is to get away from them as quickly as possible. Do not ever allow yourself to be manipulated into being alone with someone like that.

The handsome, successful, wealthy predator that I used to know who I mentioned in the other thread gave up after a few attempts at boundary testing in my case. Which of course just means that they pick different victims, but unfortunately all you can really do is defend yourself and be ready to step in when you see them sizing up another potential victim in your presence, and warn the people in your social circle.

The most chilling thing to me was that other men in the same circle recognized that he was a predator but remained friends with him, at least in a superficial going out drinking together and working together way. Part of the reason was that he was making some of them a lot of money, but what really chilled me is that they knew he was dangerous and warned the women they cared about not to be alone with him but apparently women who they didn't have a preexisting relationship with were fair game, or at least not important enough to be worth protecting or cutting off their relationship with the predator.

This thread is giving me the creeps. I'm going to buy that book.

Has anyone read The Sociopath Next Door? Very good. At least one in a hundred humans is like this. Their brains are wired differently. No conscience, no empathy. Others' fear makes them happy. Cecil I'd put money on your DS's acquaintance being one. I knew a boy like that. He had a dead stare like a shark. A coldness, no warmth. And he was a bully. I think hurting others gave him pleasure.

They learn to hide it and they watch us intently in order to learn to mimic us but the 'off' feeling is precisely because it's an act, not a spontaneous emotion of their own. They like to jolt us and hurt us because the sense of power and control over others is what they live for in the absence of being able to form loving relationships. A human without the capacity to love or care is a scary thing.

A key red flag to watch out for is the 'pity play' because we will allow someone more leeway when we feel sorry for them. And they know this.

One early evening when I was 15 I took my doddery little dog for a walk around the park. One area was a winding path around a large pool edged by dense, high rhododendrons, more secluded than I liked.
As I entered the path at one end of the pool, a man entered from the opposite end, and then we were walking towards each other.

The longest 20 seconds of my life. I knew. I knew, immediately. He stared, and he held that stare, walking towards me, never dropping his gaze, no matter how many times I looked away and glanced back.

I spent those 20 seconds arguing with myself.
You're being ridiculous.
It's just a walk.
It's not dark.
He's just a man.
Do I keep hearing directly towards him?
If I turn in the opposite direction I'll look ridiculous.
I wish my dog wasnt so old.
Or a sheltie.
Look brave.
Look confident.
Look carefree
Look breezy.
Don't look victimy.
Call your dog. Make sure he knows you have a dog.
It's fine.
You'll be past in a second.
Don't be such a scaredy cat.

Heart pounding. Highest of high alert. For no other reason than man walking, like me, in park, but staring and giving off pure malevolent, predatory vibe.

As we reached each other to pass, he stopped. He turned to me.
And he wordlessly reached up to my neck, taking hold of one end of the dog lead which I had dangling loosely around it like a scarf. And he started to pull the lead around my neck.

I instinctively grabbed the other end of the lead with my right hand and whipped it down, hard, shearing it out of his hand. He stood, hesitated a microsecond, then ran. He ran, fast away from me.

He was never caught, although I told the police what happened, with a decent description of him.
I've thought often that I might have been his first attempted victim, pure opportunism for an impulsive crime that he tried out but abandoned. That perhaps he went on to plan and execute crimes with more planning.

Years later I learned of a serial rapist in the region, who planned his attacks carefully. His mugshots gave me a similar fear sensation, the eyes.

We're animals. If we're lucky enough to have a preserved, visceral sense of danger, we should heed it, even if we doubt it or don't understand it.

I'm glad you weren't by yourself. That was 100% a predator sizing you up.

For stuff like this I'd definitely recommend The Gift of Fear, especially for those for whom the social training to try to talk yourself out of your responses is strong.

Thank god DP came out of the loo. I’m not sure if he knew she was in there or not. I think he did.

When men say things like that, that's boundary testing. They're looking to see how you react, and if you try to control your own discomfort and go into awkward laughing and trying to be nice mode then they interpret that as meaning they can probably get away with escalating. What they seem to be looking for is a response where it's clear that the potential victim is uncomfortable but it's also clear that she's second guessing herself and doesn't feel able to push back or extricate herself from the situation.