Famous men and surrogacy

By the way @Annasgirl you can still reply to the consultation even though you are in Ireland.

Yes I meant to call out that comment ThisIsTheThirdTime

My memory is that agencies that refused services to same sex couples were forced to close down.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/7952526/Last-Catholic-adoption-agency-faces-closure-after-Charity-Commission-ruling.html

I'm not going to wade in on this one but I just popped on to say that this:

In a perfect world gay men would find it easy to adopt unfortunately many adoption agencies refuse to work with gay male couples because they are homophobes who literally believe gay men adopt children in order to rape them. So I do feel for the gay men here.

Is simply not true for the majority. In the uk, anyone can adopt a child regardless of sexual orientation etc and I have worked with many gay couples who have adopted. In recent years it has become far far more acceptable and I don't know any social workers who believe gay men want to rape babies so that is an offensive and ridiculous statement to be spouting as fact.

Absolutely agree RedToothBrush

BickerinBrattle this process is well on the way with surrogacy finance being offered as a workplace benefit in woke companies in the USA. Something I'd like to know is if women having their own babies get identical maternity leave benefit $ for $? The USA is famous for having minimal maternity rights/benefits so it would be an interesting equality case for someone if this is not the case.

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190906-the-workplaces-that-will-pay-for-surrogacy

The problem with increasing use of "social" surrogacy (ie women who use a surrogate mother rather than carry their own baby) is that as it becomes socially acceptable it gradually becomes normal. Then taking time out of work to have your own baby becomes abnormal and socially unacceptable. Remember how Linda, in Brave new world, was disgusted and appalled at having a baby? She was socially conditioned to view pregnancy as the worst farmyard practice.

The words “surrogacy farm” should send a shudder straight down every woman’s body.

Surrogacy farms existed in India until India outlawed them. Now they’ve moved to another country. Nigeria just shut one down. But another will open upon another country.

Wrt medicine, the US is now the Wild West — anything goes as long as someone can pay. I fully expect surrogacy farms to open there. Who knows, the way things are going, Planned Parenthood might open the first one. Right next door to the Amnesty International brothel.

I’ve said before and I’ll say again: economists are predicting 40-50% unemployment in the developed nations within 1-2 generations, largely due to automation.

Large numbers of unemployed men are dangerous to governments,

Both the left and the right are grooming women NOW for the future work for all but a sliver of elite women: work that can ONLY be done by a female body, the work done by that class of people Marx and Engels identified as performing reproductive and sexual labour.

Why don't we see celebrity women acting as surrogates, only celebrity men and women as beneficiaries of surrogates?

If surrogacy is so awesome and wonderful why aren't rich women in positions of privilege queuing up to be seen to be doing it, in the ultimate virtue signally for the magazines?

It always comes back to the fact that they don't want to because of the physical effects on the body or the fact that money means they have a choice which is not universal and is only available to the wealthy.

I dislike it whether it be Robbie Williams and wife Adya adding a third child to the family 'to complete it' via surrogacy or Tom Daly and his husband or whichever celebrity couple it happens to be.

All these celebrities only serve to glamourise surrogacy as a life style choice to aspire to as fabulously wealthy.

The reality and the women involved as surrogates are always invisible. That in itself tells a story.

India and Thailand are closing the surrogacy industry down, as the scandals and abuse of women & children become public, leaving only the Ukraine. There are good summaries of the issues here

t.co/Y9CpbqH27h

Babies know their mothers, they spent nine months inside them. A mother must be able to hold and nurse her baby for a while and if the child is going to be adopted, the prospective adopters are gradually introduced. It can be traumatic for a child to be taken from it's mother immediately after birth, used to happen often when people had babies out of wedlock. They never even saw their baby. We now know how damaging that can be.

We don't know this baby isn't going to spend time with his or her mother ( I now see this thread has gone on to five pages so this may have already been addressed).

I know Elton and David involved their children's mothers in their baby's lives and actually had (maybe still have) a good relationship with them.

There's a good book called 'The Primal Wound' by Nancy Verrier about this very issue. It is extremely interesting and spot on.

Camsie30
If you Google the story all you will see are positive articles about it, "Dad's welcome baby girl" ect...

Just seen the pic. How insensitive can you get???? Hope the mother doesn't get to see it.

I guess it's harder for us that the baby is a female baby as we are feminists and we fight for the rights of all females. She is the future generation of girls and women that we are trying to to hold back the tide against the erosion of our sex based rights for.

That photo is so cold . A very odd way to portray themselves as a family.

Maybe the surrogate wanted to remain anonymous. With this much negativity who could blame her?

TkmaxxTwirly
*Facebooker said there was no "mother" in this case, just 2 loving dads and "just a womb"....I'm pretty sure this is gaslighting and they are so woke they don't realise it.

I'm fine with use of surrogates if it's done in a regulated way. However I thought that picture was awful. I think it was the arms up in victory that really pissed me off (I.e we did it - we made a baby) at least have respect for the woman not to post something like that. Just tone deaf

I feel the same
The photo is in poor taste

I’m sure they will try to be brilliant dads but it needs to start now, without the press ops.
Skin to skin, breast feeding from milk bank etc can all still be done.

The only negative comments I saw on Facebook, from posters who pointed out that it was a pity the mother hadn't been acknowledged etc were labelled "homophobic" and "dinosaurs". One Facebooker said there was no "mother" in this case, just 2 loving dads and "just a womb".........
Scary.

Me too op about it being a girl

Also a reminder that the UK Consultation on surrogacy law has one week to go. You can use Nordic Model Now ten minute download to respond.

https://nordicmodelnow.org/2019/08/30/how-to-respond-to-the-uk-surrogacy-consultation-in-10-easy-minutes/

Or just scroll through and answer a few questions.

42 Proposals to lift the ban on advertising.

65 Minimum age of 18 for a surrogate (and also 64 minimum age 18 for commissioning parent of surrogate baby. Who would be funding this I ask?) Do you have a teenage daughter? Ask he what she thinks about becoming a surrogate mother at 18. My daughter thinks young women that age should be planning careers and going to university. And also that they are still young enough to deserve protection from adults who may seek to exploit or coerce them.

71 No maximum number of surrogate pregnancies a woman can undertake. Even dogs have more protection in law in the UK. Licensed dog breeders limited to six litters from a bitch and the Kennel club won't register puppies after four litters.

79 Compensation for pain and inconvenience of childbirth and complications.

80 How should a surrogate mother's family be compensated should she die as a result of the pregnancy. What price a woman's life?

94,95 are concerned with easing the way to bring a baby home from abroad for surrogacy tourists.
At a time when countries like India, Thailand and Cambodia have had to ban surrogacy to protect the populace from the abuses and exploitation of rich westerners seeking uteruses for hire it is shameful that this country should be seeking to make it easier.
Imo anyone returning from abroad with a baby should be prosecuted for people trafficking.

107 Finally gets round to considering if there are any issues for the health service.

118 is basically any other business.

I haven't mentioned earlier questions which are key proposals, which seek to change the way Commissioning parents acquire legal parenthood. Check out the Nordic Model Now answers to get more understanding of these proposals.

Has the baby been sold? Do you know more information about it Camsie30.
Either way aultristic or commercial, that picture is jarring. If in fact the surrogacy was aultristic why is there no mention at all of the mother. None, as far back as May when it was announced.

There are women who choose to do this, are not forced to, are not doing it for the money

No, but even with truly altruistic surrogacy, significant rights and decisions can come into major conflict and someone has to back down if things don’t go to plan. Who’s in charge? Who gets to make the decisions around pregnancy and delivery?

I'm fine with use of surrogates if it's done in a regulated way. However I thought that picture was awful. I think it was the arms up in victory that really pissed me off (I.e we did it - we made a baby) at least have respect for the woman not to post something like that. Just tone deaf.

I want to believe that altruistic surrogacy is a wonderful thing. I used to.

But then I had my first baby.

After the birth I was very poorly. Drifting in and out of consciousness.

Dd was giving little moans and Dh was a bit worried. The midwife told him to put her on my chest. He did. She immediately relaxed and fell asleep. I don’t really remember it but it amazed dh that dd knew my heartbeat. He’d been sitting there trying so hard to look after her but all she wanted was to hear my heartbeat.

Some babies don’t get to grow up with their mum for one reason or another. Either through illness or because they can’t look after the baby. That is tragic but unavoidable. But why would you purposely conceive a child so that the first thing you do after their birth is purposely damage them? The first rule of being a parent is you put the child first. You do what is best for them even if it isn’t best for you.

As Chatty has pointed out, what group of women would consider this, for the sake of 'expenses'...wealthy, self made women like Kim Kardashian, or women living in poverty who think this was of using their biology might find their way out of it? What kind of healthy decisions might they be making if they felt like they had a choice?

And....why would the Law Commission meet with the Dept of Ed...how much money do say university students have and generally how old are they?

@Oncewasblueandyellowtwo why assume this baby has been "sold"?