Famous men and surrogacy

the boys deserve to be Daddies

Don't infantilise grown me. It's vile.

IVF is risky, by the very nature of surrogacy it means pregnancies occur via IVF. Egg donors can be exploited too, do you know much about the advertising laws on this in the UK and how it works in the US? Did you know that agencies target US college students for egg and sperm donors?

I have answered your question. Keep up. Did you even read my questions? I guess you're just ignoring them.

I am, like others here, anti-surrogacy. As I said I once considered it and decided against it. I was 27 and childless at the time.

Renting a womb is offensive, it reduces a woman to her reproductive system, her biology that grows a new life, it is not nonsense. At least the Indian government didn't think so when they banned it.

If you don't like the tone of this then feel free to ignore - don't read, don't engage. I do it al the time. Maybe spend the time doing some reading and researching this topic further.

And for the umpteenth time, men , gay or straight, are often very wonderful parents. However men are not, and never can be, mothers.
There are things that women do, that only women can do. Women are not replaceable with men.

I am the oven that is cooking the baby

Referring to yourself as an object

there is no Mummy
There is, it’s you, the woman who gestated the child

I think you'll find that IVF in general can be more risky, which extends your argument well beyond surrogacy, and out of the realm of the original claims of 'exploitation'.
The point I've been trying to make, whether personal and/or evidence-based, is that the tone and content of this thread (in general) is fiercely anti-surrogacy, but lacks anything more than 'opinion', whereas if one is actually exposed to surrogate families and the world of UK Surrogacy (which is the position I've been taking all along), then from that informed position, much of the speculative shouts of 'exploitation' and 'buying wombs' etc, can be seen for what they are: complete nonsense and really offensive.
You still haven't addressed my question.

Gardenman surrogacy pregnancies are more risky - I really think you need to look into the research on this. You are using situations you know about from personal experience without having read anything evidence or clinical research which is detailed in involved more than one person. Look at the statistics.

For the original topic
Ricky Martin
Elton John

Watch
Eggsplotation and Big Fertility
And this
m.youtube.com/watch?v=tgE3juldK-4

Read this and look up info on the very recent change to Indian surrogacy Law

www.nytimes.com/2019/06/12/nyregion/surrogate-pregnancy-law-ny.html

Do you know much about egg donation? Do you know the risks and the process? Do you know about secondary infertility?

Also, earlier you noted how posters here didn't address your question, how about you address mine?

Twee language on a serious subject doesn't help. I agree, calling grown men 'boys' is not appropriate.

Nobody has a right to have a child. This applies whether they're straight or gay, female or male. Sometimes we have to face up to hard truths, even when it's extremely painful. Surrogacy causes many, many ethical problems. The more I think about this, the less I think it's ever justified.

I am the oven that is cooking the baby

Educate yourselves ladies

Erm

I fully and completely agree with you

I think it's really creepy that you refer to grown man and prospective fathers as 'boys'...

Me too.

Not all non-surrogacy pregnancies, births and families have happy endings, so I fail to see your point around that.
Of course there are many important questions (some of which you mention) that need to be carefully thought about - and that's why I've been banging on about how much do people in this thread really know about UK surrogacy ... those questions and many more are thought about in the most meaningful ways imaginable.
On the flip side of that, there are many children born into families fortunate enough to be biologically able, whose welfare etc is not thought about for a single moment.

Did you use your own egg Surro?

I think it's really creepy that you refer to grown man and prospective fathers as 'boys'...

And is a woman an 'oven'? Gross.

Try and listen to what's actually being said NotTonight ....

Garden man Do you know how the three children feel about it? How does the husband feel? Does your friend know her biological roots? As this woman you know already has three children she could be at risk in a new pregnancy. You should advise her to look into life insurance.

I'm sure you've seen the story of the American women who died just before her scheduled c section. She was carrying twins for a Spanish couple (where surrogacy is illegal) - the twins also died. The woman's husband has a crowdfunder for her funeral and he is now raising their three children alone.

Not all stories have a happy ending.

The boys have talked extensively at how they will explain to their child how they came into the world & funny you should mention a “six year old” but my youngest daughter is 6 & she totally gets why I’m doing what I’m doing. Her first question to me was “why don’t X & Y have any children” she understands that because they are boys they can’t have babies & thinks I’m a superhero for helping them become Daddies.

I think if we think about this sensibly the world is so much more diverse now a days, there are hundreds of not thousands of same sex families successfully raising children - heck my 12 year old has a friend who has 2 Mummies but now Daddy..

Has anyone stopped to think that maybe the lady who carried the baby didn’t want to be pictured to take away from their “moment” of being proud parents showing off their daughter?

I know someone who was born as a surrogate, is now married with three children and who values the surrogacy journey (i.e. her parents) so much that she is about to become a surrogate mother herself.

It's good to have the perspective of someone doing it and I hesitate to respond in a way because clearly you're doing it, and with the best of intentions and of course we don't know the ins and outs of your situation - but this is a discussion board after all!

It sounds like you plan to be in the child's life so that seems to be much healthier than the anonymous sorts of surrogacy where the woman is a virtual stranger who won't participate at all.

I thought your description was interesting - The oven that's cooking the baby might be enough explanation for a six year old who doesn't "have" a known birth mum, but what about the adult? Is this going to be sufficient to explain why they don't have a mum? How will they feel about not having a mother in their lives?

The answer is we don't know. There's just not enough information about the impact on adults - like I said before, adopted children often feel that magnetic compulsion to seek out their birth mothers when they're older, it seems inevitable the same will be the case for some surrogate babies. I just don't think we're looking ahead because we're so fixated on what we want now.

I definitely don't see "friends and family" surrogacy as problematic as the anonymous/not in the child's life sort of birth, although there are so many issues around it all.

Gosh.

We've got a 'calm down dear' and an 'educate yourself ladies' on the same page now.

That's impressive.

I agree with your definition of exploitation, but argue that it doesn't apply to UK surrogacy

@GardenMan1 it does seem rather naive to suggest that concerns exploitation don't apply in the UK. Cases like this seem to involve pretty clear exploitation.

Anyway the thread is about reform. Ideally reform would be aimed at safeguarding against exploitation, it's perfectly sensible to look at what has happened to surrogacy around the world and learn from that.