Famous men and surrogacy

@ChattyLion

Is it possible to access someone's posting history?

So lovely that people are joining MN just to post on this thread.

If people stopped thinking of themselves and other people then the world would be a nicer place.

Well wouldn't it just, that's hilarious, if only all these intended parents could just think of the baby for once, wouldn't the world be a nicer place?

It is MY choice,

Well, bully for you but thing is, it's not all about you and your 'choices'.

Should people be allowed to legally sell their kidneys or inject heroin because they 'choose' to?

It’s an agreement between consenting adults who all know the risks but what to do it anyway.

And there it is, in all its Thatcherite glory and proud of it to boot.

There's a baby involved. A baby is not a contract.

Out of interest @AnotherEagles how much did you get paid in expenses and was the baby born using your egg or did another woman provide that?

I am NOT the mother.

Every child has a mother. No exceptions. If you are not that child's mother - despite gestating and birthing it - then who is? Whose name will go on the birth cert?

Is no one asking us to be involved? Was that why the Law Commission spent all that time and money designing a public consultation so they didn't want to know what we thought?

Judging from the complex and badly written questions, you could be right about that Another , God I wish I hadn't spent a week filling it in, what a waste of my time, I could have spent that time learning and defending women's rights instead.

I suggest you read back a bit another and read over the to and fro with Surrogacy - we're going over old ground here and it could be you who might learn something.

And the thing about discussions boards or discussion usually involves sharing opinions and sometimes we even go so far as to share facts and information, so many here are interested in other people's opinions and in facts asked for exactly that.

Are you new here? Just explaining how it works in case you're confused. You also sound angry, some might say hateful...

Most people aren’t thinking of the law, they’re slagging people off when they nothing of the whole story. They’re thinking of their personal view.

No one is selling or buying a baby. That is not how it works. I know from experience. I am a surrogate and bloody proud of it. Yes, the law needs to change but it needs to change for both sides. I do not want to register a birth or be on a birth certificate for a child that isn’t mine. I also do not want to end up with a child when the intended parent changes their mind for one reason or another. The intended parents also don’t want to be in a situation where their baby (especially when it’s their egg and sperm) is kept by the surrogate. And yes, that happens. That child is then raised by someone who isn’t even related to them in any way.

If people stopped thinking of themselves and other people then the world would be a nicer place. You cannot decide who should or shouldn’t have children and how they go about it. That’s not your choice. It’s theirs. It’s an agreement between consenting adults who all know the risks but what to do it anyway. If it’s not for you, then walk away. No one is asking you to be involved. Stand up for those who need it, not for those who don’t. Use your voice and energy for something powerful and helpful, not trolling people for bringing a much wanted and loved baby into the world and criticising those who want to help.

“ I am NOT the mother”

The DC may disagree.

Unless you know the woman or the situation behind this story, I suggest you keep your comments to yourself. I am going to be a surrogate for a couple. It is MY choice, I am NOT the mother. Just because you give birth to a child doesn’t make you a mum. Just like fathering a child doesn’t make you a dad. Most surrogates are gestational which means the woman carrying the baby isn’t even genetically linked to him/her. You’re allowing your personal opinion impact on the life of other people which is incredibly selfish. I don’t know of a single woman in the surrogacy world who has been forced into anything. I certainly haven’t been. I put myself out there as a surrogate as did every other woman I know. I chose to do this. Me. No one else and I don’t appreciate you or anyone else for that matter insinuating otherwise. Yes there are a few bad apples, as with ANY situation, surrogacy related or not, but for those few there are thousands of amazingly heart warming stories. My kids have two mums and know their dad and his husband. They know who they are and where they came from. The saying ‘it takes a village to raise a baby’ couldn’t be more apt for the surrogacy world. Try thinking of other people and keeping an open mind. You’d be surprised at what you might learn.

Another the point here is that the law must be written to protect people involved. This proposal aims to strip protections from the vulnerable party (surrogates and their families, including the child).

Why do you want to take away legal protections for the surrogate mother? The only conceivable benefit is monetary for the couple. The worst case for the couple now is they enter a surrogacy arrangement and don’t end up with a baby. A Financial loss. The worst case for the mother, currently, is death or permanent disability.

How is it not clear who has the upper hand in this arrangement?

No one asked for your bigoted opinion and no one actually cares what you think

The Law Commission (of England and Wales) and The Scottish Law Commissioner issued a lengthy joint consultation document on surrogacy open to any interested member of the public.

is it some sort of tag team arrangement do you think?

This is ridiculous. Not the story, the post and all it’s supporters. You have no right to say that someone should or shouldn’t have kids. I’d rather a family be born into a home with two fathers (my kids have two mums by the way AND we know their dad who is married to a man!) than someone who is going to abuse or neglect them.

I am also a surrogate. I am helping a couple fulfil their 8 year dream of being a family. Surrogates can be taken advantaged of, but so can the intended parents. For the few ‘bad eggs’ there are thousands of good ones. You’re using this as an excuse to spout rubbish.

No one asked for your bigoted opinion and no one actually cares what you think. Hate breeds hate. Take a long look in the mirror because the only thing that should bother you is yourself.

Expenses wise I would stretch to a few massages and some stretch mark cream, post birth I figured breast and maternity pads...work wise I think Surro expected to be back after a few weeks, would have to check her posts. Her employer would have to find a place for her to pump...is there a formal surrogacy leave policy that employers have to have, it's not the same as mat leave as there is no baby to look after, at least not one living with you and depriving you of sleep.

Overall I can't see where these figure figure sums come from to cover 'expenses', my pregnancy didn't cost me that much, where are they getting their maternity clothes from?

I;d guess she's getting government maternity pay isn't she? I think it's the tax payer ponying up for that particular expense

Presumably not being able to work for a few weeks at least. Or is her employer expected to cover that?

Surrosmith''s world sounds jolly nice doesn't it? I'm picturing a cross between a Hovis ad and Ballykissangel.

Even down to the really sympathetic and understanding employer and co-workers who aren't in the least bit bothered about taking on extra work so "the boys" can get their baby.

I was thinking about the permitted "expenses" thing in the UK. What expenses does a pregnant woman have which a non- pregnant woman doesn't?

All I could come up with were half a dozen or so taxi fares from work to ante- natal classes , 2 or 3 large cotton smock dresses near the end and a couple of pairs of cheap, flat shoes because my feet went up half a size. Doubt if it was more than a couple of hundred quid.

I've finally completed the consultation! Phew!

The payment bit was obviously pushing for commercial surrogacy and the bit about when the child has access to information about their birth was quite upsetting too.

Some of the questions didn't even make sense but I was determined to keep going, you can see how easy it would be not to bother and it's trust that government bodies will do the right thing.

For the record I don't care a bit of the 'intended parents' are same sex or not, I'm more concerned about the baby and the mother.

I know Surro has gone now but if she's lurking I hope her baby doesn't miss her and grows up healthy and happy isn't hurt in any way by the way in which he or she came into the world. I also hope she is healthy and doesn't have any complications or issues with recovery or returning to work. Many of us on here have been there and whilst I disagree completely with her decision I recognise that it is her body. It doesn't sit well with me at all but I am glad she answered my questions and I wish her no ill-will.

Recent research actually shows improved outcomes for dc in single mum situations.

There is a huge power imbalance between surrogates and the buying parents.

One of the principles being directly targetted is that of the surrogate mother to not hand over her baby.

Who in their right mind thinks that ok to challenge. Its the only safeguard for mother and baby!

Garden man and others pro surrogacy

I don’t think anyone here would try to argue that everyone involved in surrogacy is an abused victim. Clearly some people want to be surrogates and some people want to use surrogates.

However in law we do not only consider the group of people who “want to do something”. We have to consider the effects on everyone.

What about the child? In reproductive technologies in general, the child cannot consent. Would a child consent to surrogacy if able? We don’t know.

What about the costs to society? Are the additional children produced via surrogacy worth the burden to society in terms of resources including environmental impacts? Would we be better served spending surrogacy resources on better promoting and facilitating adoption?

What about people who are victimized by surrogacy? Head in the sand is not an acceptable response. If we are to build an ethical system for surrogacy, how do we build it to optimally protect the vulnerable parties (surrogate mothers, their families, and the child).

It is in this context that women here object to the proposed changes. Not because we are “homophobes”

By the way to another posters comment about whether two men should raise a child, the evidence is that two parents of any sex are about equally good in terms of measurable outcomes. Children of Single parents of either sex do measurably worse for resource (time/money) related reasons.