Transgender manager sues after botched op costs him his leg

DuMonde I hope your daughter pulls through and your SD finds peace in her identity.

Jesus Christ Tequila, mate!

You need to take a walk down a paediatric oncology ward. Absolutely awful comparison.
Yes, people with gender dysphoria feel intense psychological pain, but there is absolutely no long term evidence that transition resolves that pain. Suicide ideation is common amongst all LGBT youth, but actual suicide of trans people seems to be more common amongst transitioners, especially post surgery. We need actual, scientific studies on outcomes for trans people, y’know, like the ones we have for cancer mums.

My stepdaughter (13) is currently experiencing ROGD (she told a teacher she hated her boobs and the attention she was getting from men and the teacher suggested she might ‘really be a boy’ and funnelled her towards mermaids (for fucks sake!) and my daughter (7) is an oncology patient who a year ago today was on a ventilator and heading towards total organ failure.
They are both struggling with a shitty hand right now but there is absolutely no comparison between the two situations.

My stepdaughter’s experience is more akin to teenagers that self harm through cutting or eating disorders. My daughter’s experience is ‘you must have this poisonous chemical that makes you puke and cry and makes you so fucking ill you have to use a wheelchair or YOU WILL DIE.

Yes, they both need professional mental health support to help them cope with their lack of agency in the wider world, but my stepdaughter’s condition can resolve with no other treatment (see the brave and amazing outspoken detransitioner and desisters at Pique Resilience Project, GNC Centric, Thomasina and Charlie et al) where my daughter’s condition has a 60% fatality rate one year after onset. Without treatment it’s 100% fatal, often within weeks.
We know that’s not true of gender dysphoria, or there wouldn’t be thousands of adult transitioners - they would never have made it to adulthood.

So, no, no comparison at all.

Tequila what physical pathology is present in transgenderism? What body part or physical disease will kill a transgender person if untreated? Their breasts aren’t diseased. Their penis isn’t diseased.

A cancer patient will die of cancer if left untreated. A morbidly obese person is at significantly higher risk of dying of heart failure if their weight is not brought under control.

Of course anyone can feel suicidal for any underlying reason but nothing is actually going to kill transgender people other than suicide if their physical sex characteristics are left in situ. The stats which suggested they were killing themselves at higher rates than any other sector of the population have been thoroughly debunked (I believe even the author of the report no longer stands by it) and a long term Swedish study indicated that suicidal ideation increases by a statistically significant amount after surgical transition. So what seems to be actually happening is a medical profession being held to ransom by the threat of suicide (that is, thankfully, not borne out by reality) and being hamstrung in any attempt to treat the mental pathology driving people to hate their healthy physical body by fear of being called transphobic...because it’s not a mental illness, apparently and in “treating” it by surgical mutilation, potentially making their patients’ lives worse afterwards.

So either a) Stonewall etc are wrong, these people are genuinely suicidal and therefore clearly it IS a mental illness, in which case why is it being treated by physical surgery rather than counselling?

or b) these people are cynically weaponising suicide and are not mentally ill, in which case there is no need for them to have surgery as it plays no part in treating a disorder or saving their life.

Why is it only one of these 2 options? Having suicidal thoughts as a result of a condition doesn't mean that the original condition is a mental illness surely? If you were diagnosed with cancer and became deeply depressed and suicidal it wouldn't mean that the cancer was a mental illness treatable by counseling would it? Maybe the distress and suicidal thoughts could be treated with counseling but the underlying cancer would remain.

People who are morbidly obese (ie have an eating disorder) are being treated with drastic surgery. Why aren't they being treated with counseling rather than having most of their stomachs removed with all of the attendant risks?

I agree with a pp who said that we are too quick to medicalise issues nowadays but I think that we need to look at all procedures, not just concentrate on this one issue.

Men get surgery in prison to transition.

I have a theory that these types of surgeries are so rationed/controlled in the UK that it is hard for plastic surgeons to build up their skills. So if they can find a way to wrangle a chance to practice on the prison population they do. I mean, it pains me greatly to say it, but appearances suggest that Karen White was the recipient of some fairly high class surgery. Not that I'd be putting those before and after shots in my portfolio if I was chasing the celebrity £££ for my private practice but I'd lay money they are used for teaching sessions.

Sorry, I was going to post some before and after images but it's so sickening I can't bring myself to do it. Go google if you have t seen the evidence before

So why the fuck are we chopping them up?

Bodily autonomy. The medical profession agreeing that SRS is an appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria so patients ask for it and doctors do it.
I agree with the sentiment on this thread but some of the language is hard. We are talking about human beings here.

Until the medical profession decides dysphoria is a psychological not physical condition this is going to happen. And I can't see a big change in their approach given the current political agenda to affirm that identity is more important than biology.

Dysphoria of any sort is awful and impacts quality of life and needs to be dealt with in an appropriate manner.

Yes, I agree, but that means MENTAL HEALTH services, not chopping off body parts unnecessarily.

That link is about a South African case. Not US

It's bizarre isn't it @OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg. When a man says he'll kill himself if a woman ends their relationship, most people can recognise that as emotional abuse.

And yet when trans people do that, it's not emotional abuse, nor are they mentally ill. Why is that?

They are not held to the sane standards of behaviour, they can demand people change their language, apologise, put their feelings, wants and needs before everyone and everything else and, when they don't get their own way, can shriek 'transphobia' and everyone is terrified of being put in the bigot box.

What incel wouldn't want to be trans? The power, the airtime, the respect.

Quite intoxicating I'd think.

@NeedChoos yes it can literally fall off or need removal - essentially it’s a skin graft so in fhe same way people who have skin grafts to replace burns , restore anatomy where tissue has been removed can also suffer graft failure it’s similar . I guess those who go for surgery are prepared to take the 95% chance a heavy will take and the 5% it won’t .

Nothing to add to everyone else’s very valid points apart from to say that I also feel very sorry for the person who has lost a limb, how absolutely awful and traumatic.
I’m sure that Pink News will pick up on this story soon to help more people understand the risks.

Underhisrs

Only - Really good point - never really connected that before. I think there needs to be some significant research done.

Let’s be honest it’s not like they are short of funding.

@bengalcat...fml...it can fall off, literally!! How is that an acceptable risk?

only

I'm guessing its along the same line as if theres no biological.advantage in.sports then why have we been told not to worry because as they are being treated younger now then they wouldnt have been through puberty therefore no advantage exists.

But if no advantage exists after a yr on oestrogen then why is there a need to treat earlier to eliminate the advantage?

Which is it?

I raised this on another thread recently but no one supportive of trans people receiving treatment seemed able to answer my questions. On the one hand we're repeatedly told by TRAs, Stonewall et alia that transgenderism is not a mental illness. Yet as soon as something gets in the way of their validation it's "without this cosmetic surgery/new pronoun/key to the women's bogs we will kill ourselves!!".

So either a) Stonewall etc are wrong, these people are genuinely suicidal and therefore clearly it IS a mental illness, in which case why is it being treated by physical surgery rather than counselling?

or b) these people are cynically weaponising suicide and are not mentally ill, in which case there is no need for them to have surgery as it plays no part in treating a disorder or saving their life.

Either way, the case for radical mastectomies, implants and genital reconstructive surgery for people identifying as trans does not seem to be made out at all. So why the fuck are we chopping them up?

I don't think it is just magical thinking, it is also a generation who have been 'medicalised' and brought up to think there is a drug to fix every normal, human emotion.

Struggle to sit still in class? There's a drug for that.
Need help study? There's a drug for that.
Feel a bit anxious? There's a drug for that.

And these drugs are not just being given to children in the most serious cases, at least not in the US, but to vast swathes of the population. It is unsurprising that young people think their social issues can be 'fixed' by the medical profession when this is what they have seen all around them growing up.

@Contraceptionismyfriend yes ‘ drop off ‘ refers to failure of the skin graft to take / establish a blood supply and therefore survive

Phonic .... don’t disagree. But in a publicly funded health system “want” isn’t really a consideration. It should be driven by clinical need and preventative measures.

Disphoria of any sort is awful and impacts quality of life and needs to be dealt with in an appropriate manner.

I’m no mental health expert but it’s not sustainable to service this group of people in this way. Capitulating to life altering surgery which from the initial research doesn’t seem to help. Leaving people permanently impacted ... I don’t know the solution but it’s immoral what’s currently happening.

Agree... it’s crazy. I think this generation are fragile enough. Wanting safety above all it seems ... You don’t have to look far too see other institutions dumbing down reality. Eg Barclays new marketing campaign- making finance less scary. Didn’t know it was...

I don’t know Choo.

It must be awful to want a mastectomy because you feel you’re breasts aren’t yours. It’s bloody awful to be refused one even though you’ve got cancer.

...now sitting happily in heaven

Children are told that they can be born in the wrong body and that it can be fixed. It is explained in the same way you explain granny's death to a small child - without too much detail and a happy ending (granny just didn't wake up and is not sitting happily in heaven).

As children grow they question and work things out for themselves - but in these cases (in the Harry Potter magic-is-real generation) it's as if they just want it so badly (and have been told it is easily possible), they ignore the facts and reality of the situation.

It is horrible and shocking and I think the travesty is that this group of people are being sold a lemon.

Underhisrs ... why do the protocols not match up?

Drop off rate? Please tell me that's not what I think it is.

This thread is horrifying 😭 I should stop coming back. How is this being allowed.

Yes you can have a phalloplasty in the UK . They usually use skin from the forearm to fashion a tube to create a penis . Drop off rate is around 5% so similar to other skin grafts .