BBC Rupaul Drag Quiz

Climate change, nuclear security, biorisk reduction, positively shaping the development of artificial intelligent, improving health in poorer countries, and Promoting peace and international coordination to name a few.

If you want to be offended by negative connotations that you associate with a word then go ahead.

But consider that fishy in terms of drag does not mean smelly. A word that did mean smelly, in a different context, has been claimed and its meaning changed to feminine. And being feminine is positive. So fishy in drag is positive.

take it up with the vikings

Which series did you enjoy best? The one with the raping or the one with the slaughtering? 🤔

I'm sure that there are more pressing matters in the world

Such as?

The difference between black face and drag terms is the intent and how they are used. Black face is used by a group in power to put down an oppressed group

You see, I don't think this is as straightforward and unproblematical as you are suggesting.

The gay men have emphasised & exaggerated their felt/identified/experienced 'femininity' in the form of drag...even though what is presented in drag is always of the highly gendered, stereotypical, ballsy, man-eating, bitchy, aggressive, negative feminine stereotype, does not neutralise the 'distaste' felt towards those gendered stereotypes. Everyone knows and feels that this drag queen is 'a bitch' 'Her' cutting dialogue is funny; her whip-lash tongue is hilarious.

But as an actual woman - i have always felt profound dissonance with these presentations, even when I'm supposed to have found them funny. Always found them disrespectful.

Fish only refers to women - and could be a compliment to a transperson - because it is referring to the smell of a woman's vagina. How could that possibly be anything but offensive? How is that difficult to understand? Why do we need a lecture on queer theory here?

to empower the women that had transitioned

This is the problem with language changing without consensus. "the women that had" suggests to me that you are talking about women. But are you? Did these women transition to become something else?

I assume from the context of this thread that you are actually talking about men who transitioned to appear as women.

Go sort those out then Mac.

Off you pop.

@Justhadathought

Fair points, I don't have the same exposure or experiences with the Gay community so I'm not in a position to comment - it sounds like you are drawing from experience.

I see racism against my DH on a daily basis and the battles he fights working in a predominantly white environment, and for whatever reason I find black face so much more offensive than drag. I do understand the arguments that put them side by side however I think the intent is very important and different in the two.

Well, this is the Feminism board. Here we talk about feminist issues.

Blackface is not complimentary, it's a mockery of black people... And it's perpetrated by white oppressors
Drag is not complimentary, it’s a mockery of women... and it’s perpetrated by men
It needs to be treated like ‘blackface’ and left in the past.

Can't we all just be oppressed together?

I'm sure that there are more pressing matters in the world.

Why is it ok with you for one oppressed group (gay men/trans MTFs) to put down another (women)?

They aren't women though. Women are a different oppressed group oppressed for different reasons mostly due to their female bodies.

The difference between black face and drag terms is the intent and how they are used. Black face is used by a group in power to put down an oppressed group.

Ball terms were made by and are used towards the queer community to empower the women that had transitioned or were transitioning as they were trying to present as feminine as possible because that's wasn't how most of the world would allow them to be viewed.

Because at the end of the day they were not men and not all were gay

Trans-women are men, though.....I'm not sure what you mean?

I think homosexual men face a lot of prejudice, violence and discrimination - it's overly simplistic to say they are "more privileged than women"

This is not in dispute; but as a woman with a history of involvement in the male gay community, I suggest that 'male privilege' in gay men is all too evident, and always has been. Gay men do not like to view themselves in this way, though, and are very resistant to seeing it in themselves; but let me tell you it is very much there. And because it is denied and falls into the 'blind spot' - it can even be more virulent than in straight men, at times.

But of course this thread is about the word 'fishy'. Which a pp just used in their post defending all things drag. Which was really fucking offensive and they must surely have known that?

The End.

Goodnight.

@Justhadathought I never said gay men I am referring to when these terms were made in the ball scene to empower the trans women that were fighting for their rights to present as women. Because at the end of the day they were not men and not all were gay.

Dressing as women and holding pretend weddings was a powerful way they were railing against the patriarchy. Gay men weren't in a privileged position they were highly persecuted! -they would be executed in fact

Yes, none of this is in dispute; but the fact remains that the embodiment of female/woman/feminine is/was and always has been considered second class and despicable. that gay men have flaunted their 'femininity', even in costume form - feels to many/most women as just the same as a white person flaunting their blackness/black credentials - when being black was/is seen as being a second class and inferior status to be mocked and sent up.

I think homosexual men face a lot of prejudice, violence and discrimination - it's overly simplistic to say they are "more privileged than women"

In the 18th century "molly houses" were part of pervasive sub culture, estimated to be 30 moll houses in London. That's massive given the population!

Just because they were a part of the sub-culture does not take away from their representation of women. Black music was a part of a certain white sub-culture from the 1950's onwards......

It is usually the prerogative of the oppressed to say what is demeaning of them. Unless they are women, naturally!*

Agree 100% with this but it's not correct to say it's only women who's opinions are invalidated. DH is black and god forbid you explain to someone why a term or idea is racially prejudiced... Good luck if they listen without rolling their eyes and saying you're playing the race card.

suggesting that men are not privileged over women

I think there is a difference between drag and black face. It's about the privilege of the group doing it and the intention

So are you suggestig that men are nor privileged over women?